CTC Ep. 40 | The 2.5-Hour Website Copy Formula That Converts Visitors to Clients with Rachel Brooks

[00:00:00] I had such a great conversation with Rachel Brooks on the Confident Woman podcast, and it was so good. I wanted to share it here with you today

Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story.

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Rachel: Welcome back. Today we have with us Chris Jones. Chris is a StoryBrand guide and founder of Red Door Designs, mentored by StoryBrand founder Donald Miller himself, and with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike under her belt, she's extremely passionate about helping self-employed women get website copy that sells so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best.

So welcome, [00:01:00] Chris.

Kris: I'm really, really looking forward to chatting with you. Yeah, so essentially I, I lived in Portland, Oregon and I have been doing this work and marketing for 20 years now, which is kind of nerd to even think about, but I'm very passionate about it because I am incredibly inspired by creating freedom.

I love the free down, that being self employed has created for my own life and I want that for others who are interested in kind of dipping their toe in to entrepreneurship or, you know, being self-employed. I just think it's a beautiful dress and I love to support people in that journey. When I, when I started working around 20 years ago.

I really focused on brand and branding and, and that eventually evolved into website design, and [00:02:00] that was really my self focus. But through the years, I recognized that branding and design don't work unless your messaging works. And so I, I really, uh, went on a mission to craft, to code between what makes a, a story, what makes.

Website copy work. How do you talk about your own business in a way that gets other people really excited to work with you? And what happened was I, you know, I eventually became a Story Brander certified guide. And prior to that though, I would have plans come to me wanting me to build them a website, and they were just.

Pull their hair out, trying to write their own copy. Like it was truly torture. And it would, it would disrupt the timeline of the project. It would pass so much grace and Gene, and I'm just over it and like, I'm [00:03:00] not willing to let my experience juggle like this anymore, so let's figure it out and through, you know, learning about the book, building a StoryBrand, and also just studying really, really deep into everything.

Around how to tell a good story. I involved my business into really focusing on not only helping entrepreneurs craft a clear message, but to create a message that's really aligned with who they are and to do it, to be able to do it in 2.5 hours flat. And this process doesn't leave anybody. To do it on their own, which I think is the hardest part.

We're just so close to our own selves and our own business. It's just really hard to talk about yourself. We're just too, too close to it.

Rachel: Yeah, I was just going to say that too, and I was just thinking, you know, I, I actually just did a full re relaunch on my website and I, I had to encounter that it was, you know, start [00:04:00] writing about yourself and you're like, how do you sum it up in like the three.

Spaces that are available, you know, 'cause a website is so limited and you know, just, it's kind of funny that you had just mentioned, 'cause I literally just walked through this in the past couple weeks and you know, I think it's so important to really take that step back as, as you were saying, like kind of, you know, how do we get to that point where we can kind see, disconnect the personal from the professional side so you can see it from a different vantage point.

And I. I know that with StoryBrand that's what they do. Like, it's the work that's really extracting that story that's inside of you, right? And, and your message or personal experience or like what it is and how it tailors to that product or service that you offer. And so I'm, I'm curious to know like how to write, you know, compelling copy that sells in two and a half hours.

Flat. Tell me more about that. Because like, I was about to run, to rip my hair. Is randoms.

Kris: Nothing worse than just staring at a blink screen [00:05:00] going, ah, what? I can't find the the right words. Exactly. I wanna start by just sharing and letting your audience have the hook around she hard it is to write for yourself and why that is.

So this is something I call a bottle effect and essentially when we are, are in business, we are. It's like we're inside of a bottle trying to, to read a label that can only be read from the outside of the bottle. So I think a lot of us are like, well, if I just persevere, I keep trying or I push my way through and it's like, it's not, it's, it's impo, it's feels impossible because it's per, it's impossible to put yourself outside of the bottle.

And it's very hard to read that label clearly from inside of the bottle. So. That's really the first thing that we all deal with as business owners. And then the second one is the curse of knowledge. So if you've been in your [00:06:00] industry for any amount of years, you are an expert at it and you've really forgotten what it's like to not know what you know.

And so you start communicating with people in a way that they, as if they understand kind of the nuance because of your industry and your. Some are new to you, doesn't know that yet. And so it's really hard to write in a way that's the full and zero. And these two things are both going on at the same time, which is why we wanna pull our hair out when we write our own copy.

And so. Story brand's amazing. I highly recommend everybody gets the ic, everybody should read it. It, you know, you really wanting to delve deep into story and what creates a story. But reading the book doesn't really solve that prolonging of being inside the bottle and medium somebody to be outside the, and the the [00:07:00] struggle that I should have observed over many, many, many years is that.

Number one, people try and write their own copy and it's just tortured. And then number two, they muster up enough money and sometimes a lot of money. Sometimes it's like $10,000 for a web, a web page, and they hire a copywriter to write it for them. And that copywriter goes last and writes in their play, they're doing their best job, but their voice is not your voice.

So when you get the copy back, it just feels ops, you know, it just doesn't feel like your voice. It just, it doesn't integrate with the nuances of your, your industry. And so it, when you already don't have enough time, cre, it ends up taking more time than if you were to write it yourself because back and forth.

And the revisions. And the revisions and so it's just a giant trickle that we all existed when we're trying to create our website. [00:08:00] And really the way out of, of that situation is through collaborative copywriting. And that is the offer. That's pretty much the main offer that I do with my friends. And it, it happens in two hours, two and a half hours slack because I know how to ask the right questions that are gonna extract the right information out, and then we really do it collaboratively.

So then you're not. You know, you know every step of the way that it's really a word with your voice, and yet you've got an expert with you by your side, um, to make sure that the strategy is there and to help you, um, to help kind of get rid of all the noise and keep only what's essential for your story.

Rachel: Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's so helpful, what you just said, you know, having that collaborative effort. And for, for personal experience and being on both sides, it's like, you know, you [00:09:00] can, I'm in that bottle and I'm also trying to write it, which I know is a big, you know, big old mass. And then also taking that time intentionally step out.

And even if it's not as personally close to me, but yet it's an extension off of me or, you know, something that's still related or associated with h. We still don't have that clarity that it would be if, if you had somebody who is skilled in that department to really extract that, as you said. And then on the other side of the coin is kind of that, that aspect where if you shared with, you know, whoever's writing your copy along the lines of what you're looking for, sometimes they take that as a matter of fact, here it is, those were the five points, and, and sometimes they don't really polish it.

So like you said, it, it feels, it feels off like it's missed the mark. Because you want somebody that, that understands those topics to a degree that they can enhance upon. And so here's, you know, so and so does these five things and it's just, you know, where's the kind of meat and potatoes aspect of it?

And sometimes, you [00:10:00] know, if you're too close to it, you get the meat, potatoes, the side dishes, the dessert, and the Togo boxes, right? A little bit, you know, and you're like, oh, I just came for the, for the meat and potatoes. But you know, from, from personal experience, I could, I'm, I'm kind of on both sides of those fences so I can really resonate a lot of the pain points that you had just talked about.

And also just when you tell me like that two and a half hours flat, the pain point to me is like, whoa, how is this possible? So I'm curious to know, like, what do you think is that most important thing that comes to creating copy around the story brand? So like, how is that possible?

Kris: Yeah. Okay. Well.

Essentially, I'll start by sharing tremendous fundamentals and every story you've ever read, every movie you've ever watched, they all have essentially the same recipe. And we use that same formula in our website, and I'll kind of, I'll talk through that next. But [00:11:00] the formula, or creating a really compelling story is a hero has a problem.

So number one, a hero has a problem. Number two, a hero meets a guide with a solution. And number three, the hero signs. So I'm gonna repeat it one more time just so you kind of get it into your memory. Number one, a hero has a problem and the key to remember here is that you're not the hero. Your client is the hero.

And then that hero meets a guide with the solution. You are the guide business owner. Then number three, the here on learning success. So as the guide, we really help them envision what success looks like and remind them that you know the way and what's possible for you after you solve this problem.

Rachel: Ooh, I like that.

And I feel like that what you just said, the formula is applicable, and if anyone's watched movies or read books, [00:12:00] that makes total sense. It's like they, you just clicked it all together. And, and you being the owner of your brand, how different than would your brand be in those case scenarios? So now it's like the, the books to the movies, to the business.

I love that. Yeah. Yeah. And,

Kris: and the thing that, that I see out there, just 99% of the time, most people get this wrong. And it's just purely because. It's unintentional, right? Everybody is doing their best and they're trying to write copies of their own website and they're thinking, the heck do I talk about?

Guess I should talk about me 'cause this is my website. And what I wanna share with you today is to kind of think about that differently. So what we really wanna do is instead of telling our story. We wanna invite our explorer into a narrative with us where they're the hero of the story and we are the guide in the story.

And, and if you watch [00:13:00] any movie, you'll see that that hero, the movie begins with the hero, with the problem, the guide that doesn't even enter into the story and tell that 20 minute into the movie, or maybe 50 pages into the book. So this is kind of a load off for a lot of business owners to recognize that like, oh, this isn't all about me.

If I really hone in on my hero's problems, so my clients' problems, then they're gonna seal, see, they're gonna seal herd, they're gonna feel connected with me. And the more we articulate their problem and the symbol that they're going through. That immediately they think that we are the best ones to solve it.

So we all of a sudden we start building trust and connection, and we haven't even talked about ourselves yet. We've only talked about the hero and their problem. And [00:14:00] so it's just that it's such a relief when this, when you really implement this formula, it just becomes so much easier to write and it becomes so much more joyous to write too.

And,

Rachel: and like you said, it lets you off the hook and it's like, how many times do we sit down, not even just a website copy, but like our social media posts or, or just an email or something like that. We sometimes might overthink it or, or under deliver because we're not putting ourselves in this, this, you know, step by step kind of guidance to get that.

Individual to recognize that whether it's you, that's the solution, or the product or the service, or maybe a collaboration, whoever that is you, you wanna position yourself as I have the answer to your struggles or problems or pain points, whatever that may be. And then using that, those conversations or the verbiage in your copy to translate that in, in hopes that that individual is like.

This is the answer that I've been looking [00:15:00] for and I need to buy or hire or, you know, talk or whatever that, that call to action or that transaction happens to be is putting yourself in that, the situation of that individual. So, right.

Kris: Yeah, I think you're, you make a really, really good point. You know, I do this mostly for people on their websites, but.

Does formula applies to literally every piece of copy you write, every email you put out there, every social media post you create, every chle that you still learn on your social media are leaked in. It just, it works for everything and that's why it's so incredibly powerful. And the other thing it does, it just does the work for you in selling, right?

You don't have to. Felt so hard because you're using the words and allowing them to do the work for you.

Rachel: Yeah, it's very much so, and it's like if you just kind of hit the nail in the head with your [00:16:00] messaging, then it delivers. I love that. And so I guess, you know, kind of going back a little bit to where you were saying.

The being in the bottle trying to read the label a little bit too close. And, and correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I've, I've either experienced it or have witnesses and some of the ladies that I've worked with as well. It's like, you know, when you ask them, well what is the problem you're trying to solve?

Sometimes it's even hard to sum that up into like one thing, right? Because we look at it from like that perspective. There's one thing that triggers this thing, but it ties in with that thing and it's gonna fall, you know? So like all these things kind of feel connected. Do you help kind of extract that also so that, that it's very crystal clear on that message that's tailored to the campaigns or the, the marketing plan to launch that product or service or whatever that is?

Kris: Absolutely. That is part of the prospect. I mean, when we are, when we try and do this work alone, [00:17:00] we stumble around, we assisting guests ourselves, me. And we write, we type, we delete, we, we delete. And what what I do is help guide you and really do the heavy lifting for you. So I, you might write down three things or might share with me three things we say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Third one. That's, that's the one. And what, what we really wanna remember too is that we wanna meet your client where they are. So. As experts, we know what, we know, what their fundamental like problems are, and sometimes they're different than what our clinic comes to us with. So you know, Sally might come to you and say, this is my problem, and you'll say, okay, I get it.

I hear you. But you know, really. Her deeper problem is that she doesn't have a marketing plan or whatever it is. So we don't wanna mudding the [00:18:00] waters. We just wanna say, you know, in their words, in their words, watering the problems and you get on the song with them that they share with you and, and that kind of tropes that answer.

Rachel: Yeah, I love that. And it's so true. 'cause I, I mean, I've kind of been on both sides and I was like, ah, okay, so that's, yes. So even just on the conversing side, like you had said, when, when our clients come to us and they're like, okay, but this is X, Y, and Z. And you're like, okay. But, and so it's kind of funny to, to see yourself like step back from that perspective.

'cause when we're too close to, to our own work, it gets all muddy, like you said, and, and. I always like to, you know, the works that you do. I like to say it's kinda like we, you know, it's Monet, it's like a, our, our, our, our craft, right? So up close it's, it's a big old mess, but we have to take that step back to see the beautiful creations that we just, you know, put together.

And sometimes world War two close to it, that one little stipple or the one little brush stroke can really change the entirety of that piece that you are [00:19:00] working on. So kind of knowing when to push the gas and, and pull back and, you know, push on the brake is so helpful and I love that you really take that, as you said, the heavy, heavy lifting and helping your clients to really refine and define and know when to push and pull back.

So that's incredible. And so you have that formula, you know, with the. Recognizing, you know, the story brand part of it, and then coming out as that step by step guide. So what would you say, you know, for website copy, what are some of the must haves for websites? Like, I know we wanna put everything on, right?

And sometimes, listen, we didn't come here, read about your entire life. What are some of the must have? 'cause we always feel like, you know, but it's so important. But what are those sections that you would suggest that every female expert or small business owner should have?

Kris: Well, you really need to be able to clearly communicate what you do.

So, you know, if I were an accountant, I'm an accountant [00:20:00] for people in Portland, Oregon, like you, you don't want to have to make people work to find out what you do. So that's kind of the first say you want to on the see, you want to help them answer the question, what does this person do and how is it gonna make my race better?

So once you got that out of the way, then I would immediately go into the pro, what I call the problem section. So articulating in that problem come up with three bullets that really articulate the problem. So, you know, for my clients be, you know, you, you step because you're not sure what to say when you open up a document or a social media post.

You don't have time to write this copy yourselves. And when you hire a copywriter. Not only is it expensive, but it doesn't really feel aligned with your voice. So I would just really like get into the hands and the hearts of your clients and articulate, you know, [00:21:00] three-ish problems that they're struggling with.

And then one of the most important things you can do on your website is really show them what is, what success looks like. So this was really step three in the formula. So you really wanna show them. And it's interesting you just heard people, um, also struggle with, because they tend to talk about the features.

Like, here's the benefits of working with me. And again, I just wanna remind you to like get out of the hero role and be the guide. A guide that doesn't come in. Try and be flashy with features. A guide says, here's where I can take you and here's what's possible for you. So for my clients, I'm just, you know, using this as an example because they know it, you know, through and through.

So for my clients, it's not really, it's not really about the copy, it's about what [00:22:00] can happen in their life once they have copy that's completely derailed. So all kinds of things happen. I mean, the most immediate one is just you start to make more money because people immediately wanna work with you. If you're clear, you're not wasting their time.

You're confident. They, they understand how you're gonna benefit their lives. So, first time put third copy, you're gonna make more money. Definitely you're gonna show up with more confidence because you know, you, you not only have a website that's working for you 24 7, but. You speak about your, your business differently.

Once you have those words, you can more confidently communicate what you do. And then the third thing that happens is you just get more freedom. You don't waste your time on sales calls and trying to explain yourself over and over again because you've got tools that are doing view listing for you. So you've got more time and more [00:23:00] freedom, more flexibility.

And I mean, who doesn't want that? So. That's just an example and like me showing you as the guide me showing you what's possible for you. And I would want you to do that same thing for your clients. Show them what's possible, like to keeping things. I'm, if I'm a bookkeeper, what's possible for this person because their books are completely dialed in if their taxes are, um, nailed like ahead of schedule.

What happens for those people? They don't have to stress about it. They're not assembling around trying to figure out their receipts. They're more, maybe they're more confident with their finances. Maybe they have the time to think about what they wanna invest in now that they've got their finances in order.

So I would just encourage you guys to look at the peak of the mountain. What is it, the peak of the mountain, and ultimately, what are they gonna get after engaging with you? [00:24:00]

Rachel: And I, and I love that you had just mentioned that too. And I think when we, we look at sales pages or any of the copies, sometimes we, we read about all the, the things that you can get if you buy the product or services, like all the bells and the whistles and, and it's, you know, flashy and sounds all well and good 'cause you wanna know like, oh, but if I invest X, Y, and z I'm going to get these bonuses.

And those are pretty cool. But yet tho the bells and the whistles aren't going to sell because. You're just slapping some band-aids on the problems, right? So you could, you know, sign off on a, a cast and make it all pretty and stuff, but underneath you're still got, you know, the issues at hand. And, and so very, very great point there.

Is that how you had said it's about guiding them through the processes so that you are presenting it in a way that they've already, as a reading through your copy, they're already imagining them walking through the solutions, the steps. [00:25:00] Then at the end, it is exactly that. A bonus, like, oh, and I get these things.

How cool is this? I end up right now, take my credit card. Right? But if they, I don't really know, but, oh, well if they got these bonuses, I mean, that's cool, but I don't know if it's worth my credit card. And so at that point, there's that disconnect and that customer or you know, potential lead would opt out and move on to the next individual that might be suitable for getting them to that next step.

And I assume that you probably see that quite often, especially if somebody's. Too close in the work as, as we call it here, that they don't really see how they're able to navigate through the, the customer's journey if they don't see that with clarity.

Kris: Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Yeah, that's so true. And you bring up a good point about the bones list too, because it's not like you shouldn't, shouldn't have those things.

There is a time and a place for them you really want to earn. Trust and establish a connection and also establish your role as society and their role as the hero [00:26:00] and help them really understand how you can make their lives better and how you can help them avoid failure, quite frankly. And once you've done all them right, once you've kind of fast in the story, then of course like people do want to dive in a little bit deeper to dot the i's and press the T's on.

You know, some fun bonus you're gonna offer or whatever. Maybe some, some details about the program or the course, but that's really secondary to the overarching,

Rachel: right. And then, you know, on, on the other side, you know, going that StoryBrand route versus the individual who tries to DIY it and you know, like, okay, I'm just gonna piecemeal this together and do it myself.

So what do you think are, are some of those pitfalls that somebody who is DIYing it versus somebody who hires out an expert? What is, you know, what are the pitfalls? What are the, obviously from having to redo it [00:27:00] again or something like, you know, cost effectiveness. What do you, when do you think it's time to hire a professional copywriter to capture your, your brand story versus keep going to bat and try to get it right?

Kris: Yeah, I love that question because. Depending on where you are in your journey, the could vary. But the reality is there are so many incredible web We slate builders there. I mean, that's, no, that's no mystery, right? We've got quote phase and, and all the things you think Ajay, like, they're all very intuitive and easy to build on, and they have these templates that are kind of predesigned for you.

And so in many ways. They're, they're pretty slow proof. So, and this is something that, that I would say, okay, so if you're going to DIY, it build your own website, but save up the money to collaborate with a writer [00:28:00] who knows what they're doing, whether it's me or somebody else. Like you cannot get outside in that bottle without Trump from somebody else.

And that might be. A brand or a neighbor or you know, a, a family member. But what you really want is somebody who's familiar with their architecture and storytelling and somebody who can ask you the right questions. And so I, I really think that if you don't wanna send any money at all, buy the book. Or if you only wanna spend $15, let's just buy the book.

Building a Story brand. And, and then go to clarity with chris.com. And I have a freebie there. It's, uh, how to write controlling copy in five minutes. Last it plus signs ish minute video. And I walk you through kind of how to craft your story and then [00:29:00] I give you an opportunity at the end to schedule a free call with me to get feedback.

So. That's really kind of the, the most affordable way to get familiar with copy. And then if you're, if you're ready to invest, I mean, the work that I do, it's only, it's 29 97, so it's 2,997. It's ridiculously affordable for what you get. And essentially that offer is all about you and me collaborating together to craft your.

Website copy. So it is just working for you. Like your top snails look like 24 7. And that's for people who are just like, they're busy. They just made it done in 2.5 hours flat, and they, they want it done right. But they also really want it to be aligned and resonate with their own voice.

Rachel: Right. That's so good.

And, and so you kind of hit the. Hit the, the different stages [00:30:00] that, you know, some of, some of us women are in it, whether we're just getting started and we're, we can only afford to DIY it and having some of those tools and, and kind of tip suit to get to that point. And it's not saying, you know, you can't write your own coffee is event.

Eventually as you grow your business, you're going to grow your budget, which then would you want to uplevel that? And so there's different stages in. And you probably don't necessarily recommend, I mean, somebody from who's coming on board as a complete and newbie startup, just going all in and, and hiring out a copywriter.

'cause then technically you haven't even had that experience yet in your business. Then to, to really articulate it, I guess and, and to deliberate, and I could be wrong there. I'm just, uh, kinda speaking a little bit from experience and, and also from, again, what I'm hearing from some of our ladies is that.

Do I have to go all in? I'm, I'm just starting out. I don't have that budget. Can I do these things on my, on my own? And the answer is yes, absolutely. And as you grow, you'll realize that you have outgrown your own voice and [00:31:00] your own copy and your own criteria or your own limits, and more important, your own time.

That's kind of where you might be on the fence saying, Hey listen, I really wanna uplevel and if I wanna uplevel and grow, I have to uplevel my copy, my website, my offers, my my products and services. And that's where, you know, you can bring on somebody like Chris and, and or, or before Chris read the book and understand how that kind of goes.

And so there's different stages and I love that you walk that, walk our listeners through that because you know you're, anyone who's listening can. But I'm not there. Or, oh, I'm there. So what's next? And I, and I think it's all important to kind of touch upon that because you don't have to be ready and you don't have to have everything all figured out, but just getting started is the number one thing that you can do today.

And so, like you said, with your, with your offer firm, you can't go wrong. Like go there and fill it out and you know, discovery call with you. And I mean, could she make it any [00:32:00] more easier? Like seriously. So I just, this has been incredible. I mean, you fill out the form, you do all the stuff, and you follow up with you, and then that's where you get that connection call and it, having Chris's feedback, I mean, I see so much value right there.

Yeah.

Kris: Yeah. And I just wanna echo your point that you just shared, which was the, the way I heard it was you, there's nothing more valuable than just doing the work. It starts the work that you're doing so you can learn about your clients, you can learn about the type of people you like working with, and you can learn about the type of work you love doing.

So I guarantee you, you know, if you are just study literally today that. You might write some copy that still is true for you, and then in a year from now you'll revisit it and you'll be like, oh yeah, look, I didn't, I learned so much, like, you know, six months in or eight months in, [00:33:00] and now I am clearer on the people I wanna work with, and I'm clearer on the, the hurdles that they're wanting to overcome and that you can help them overcome.

So. I think, you know, sometimes what, what gets missed in, you know, this culture of just entrepreneurship and this is what you need to do is giving yourself grace and taking a and six months to a year and literally just doing the work and sealing your way through sealing, feeling the rhythm and the type of work and letting that organically absolve.

Over time and then coming in and starting to do your copy. You don't have to go all in, write on the get. Definitely not,

Rachel: yeah, and, and probably not advisable either.

Kris: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. I mean, if you have

Kris: the tarring right, you can, but most of us are pretty busy and, you know, [00:34:00] there's, there's, you know, two free resources I share with you that aren't very time consuming.

And then, yeah, give it some time and that. Dive in when you're ready.

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I, you make such a great point there. It's just, you know, if you're just starting out, give yourself that time in six months to a year and, and kind of almost at, at that point insert yourself and do some, some pro bono work because then you get the hands on experience and.

Before you invest all the money up front to go out. And unless you have a hundred percent certain clarity and the budget to do so, then you can go. But anyone who's just starting out, and you might just be like, oh, I'm a hundred percent, you know, going all in on my fitness coaching business. And then you get into the fitness coaching business, you're like, yeah, this isn't exactly the direction I wanna go.

I wanna, you know, tailor more towards like nutrition or, or mindset or something like that. You know, if you've already spent that money upfront, you gotta go back and kind of do it again. So that's why, you know, kind of, kind of proceed with caution, I guess, would be the [00:35:00] advice that I would suggest. And maybe a little bit from, from you, Chris, and like at least just know what you are getting into.

Kris: Yeah, I, I don't know if, I don't know if I would say Chris, with, with caution, I would say dive in and follow your heart and do, do the work. But like. Have fun with it and learn and keep iterating and, and I guess that's what I wanna say is like, it's an iterative process, so proceed with caution if you're gonna blow a bunch of money on someone to do it for you, and you're just starting for sure.

Rachel: Yes. If

Kris: that reminds no caution. Like Totally. Finally. Agreed. Agreed. And. If you, if you're really excited about what you're about to do and you really wanna get good at it and quickly then learn the some amount of story, keep iterating, keep, you know, going through my freebie and, and [00:36:00] referring it. Do the do the same, free me every couple months and see how it ABOs and change.

It changes over time. That's probably the most powerful thing you can do is to really dive in with and get familiar with how to tell a compelling story and then that way you can use it in literally every aspect of your business.

Rachel: Yeah, so true. And once you really phone that story and that story has power.

It will just deliver for you, like you said, running auto, like automatically in the background through your website, through your written copy for websites, social media, emails, whatever that is. And so owning that is so, so powerful, and even the story brand itself really encapsulates that because there again, when you're telling a story, it's that connection.

Even right before Chris and I hopped on, I was just telling her about a new, new term that I had learned. And, and it kind of, you know, [00:37:00] plays off a little bit of the, the storytelling, but it's called client telling. And if you are in the service of, you know, selling or retail or e-commerce or any of that, that client telling is similar to the storytelling.

Like you get to learn the narrative of your clients. So that they're telling you what they're looking for, what they shop the most, when they, how often they shop, what their, their frequency, their, their needs, their expectations are. And so you learn a lot from your client telling that can be used into your brand storytelling.

And so bringing those two, if you're a kind of a little trick that I just learned, but I don't know if it's, it's been for a while, but I just learned it. I,

Kris: I haven't heard that chair before, but I really love it and. The way I interpret that term client to is really positioning your communication in a way that light your client into a narrative with you.

So your, [00:38:00] your, your communication is based on what's important to your client, what do they care about? And if we do nothing else, like that's the most powerful thing that we can do with our communication. It's really deeply. Care about our grant. Communicate to them around the things that they care about and their dreams, their pains, their struggles, their goals, all of that stuff that we're all kind of standing the environment.

It's really interesting. I, I don't like sharing the sags, but everybody knows it to be true because it sounds 10 of negatives, but as humans. We really only care about ourselves. Like of course we love our family and of course we, we have friends and we share about other people. We're wired to stay in the environment around us to figure out how we can survive and thrive.

And that's why our brains turn off when we're, [00:39:00] we're reading copier's boring because there's a switch in our head, in our brain that goes not helping me survive and drive. You know, moving on to the next toast. And so when we know that and we understand that, you know, our brains are wired to figure out how we're gonna survive the drive, then you base your communication with that in mind changes.

Rachel: So good. And that's so true. It is much as we don't wanna say, but yeah, we are very self-centered in that. You know, the eco ecosphere that we're in, right? We, we only see things from our own perspective and our own lens, so that's how it kind of passes through our self filtration system. So kind of, you know, we have to have that center self focal point.

We gotta be wise of that intention behind it too.

Kris: Yeah. And that's why we survived and thrived as humans. I mean, this is [00:40:00] why, where the issues that we are is because we are wire that race. It's not a bad thing, but it's really eye opening thing we, we recognize and you right with that in words.

Rachel: Yeah, absolutely.

Well, this has just been an incredible conversation. I know that you have, you, you delivered such value from. Just kind of bringing some highlights to the bullet points to what to look for, what not to look for, and, and all the goods. And of course, you know, the, the free stuff that you are giving out for our listeners and knowing that whether they're, they don't know what they're, you know, getting into or just have some questions taking that.

Free, you know, your free mini training series, compelling copy, and knowing that they can click back on a link and, and have a conversation with you about it. And so that's incredible because you don't know until you have that sometimes we're like you said, we're me, myself and I, you it. It's great to have a fresher perspective or somebody who's experienced in there to help [00:41:00] bring in some clarity, some direction, and.

Sometimes just somebody to kind of help hash out what you're working through. Yes.

Kris: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. So the freebie is Clarity was Prince, and my name's K, Chris K. Clarity was chris.com. And then you can also check out my offer at Red Door Design Step. It's red door design problem, and I'll walk you through the process.

Rachel: Awesome. And of course all that will be in our show notes. And if anyone wants to follow along with you on your social media, how can somebody reach out? Is, is your website your best contact or which one would be your best?

Kris: Madison would just on my one Slack website, that would probably be the desk Plain Stick Edge suite.

And then you can also find me on Instagram at Red Door Ring with no s with N.

Rachel: Awesome. All right, well all of that will be in the show notes below, so be sure to check that out. And I just wanna thank you, Chris, for coming on and just sharing your awesome [00:42:00] wisdom and, and just your experience and everything that you have delivered for us today.

So thanks so much. Thank you, Rachel. It was

Kris: really a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.

Rachel: Thank you.

Kris: Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next.