CTC Ep. 45 | Stop Pressing the "More" Button and Start Leading with Bill Zipp

Kris: [00:00:00] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story.

It is my great pleasure to introduce you all to the amazing Bill zip. Bill was a client of mine several years ago now, and he was just such a delight to work with and we, I feel like we really bonded in our journey of working together and really. Transforming your messaging, upleveling your brand. I was just actually looking at your headshot yesterday because I was, um, at the website of the photographer that I use and I I saw that beautiful photo that we, that, yeah, that headshot that we took of you.

So anyway, I just wanna welcome you to the show. Bill zip helps hardworking sales [00:01:00] managers become better leaders. Through his people-centered approach to performance, he helps his clients achieve double digit growth. And beyond. So Bill, welcome and tell us a little bit about yourself.

Bill: I got started in this wonderful adventure of consulting over 22 years ago, believe it or not.

Wow. I was really, really bored with my day job, and so I, I wanted to get started in consulting. It's super funny. I got a funny story. I, my wife and I talked about it for a long time and we announced it to the kids and my oldest daughter said to us, you don't wanna do that. I wanna go to college. So her, she was pretty sure that we went through that well, but it was the best decision I've ever made.

And uh, although there's. Hard years up and down, you know? So I've been at long enough to wear the great financial meltdown, you know, that happened to seven, 2007, 2008. And then of course COVID and there's been other things, so, so there have [00:02:00] been ups and downs, but other than those things, it's been so much fun.

Kris: Mm-hmm. Tell me, like, what was the process for you of really jumping off that cliff of paycheck from month to month employment to. You know, being completely self-employed and it sounds like you talked to your wife about it. And what was that process like for you to make that change? Well,

Bill: at first it was foolish.

So I'm one of these people that I'll jump off a cliff and then figure it out on the way down. So at first it was really foolish. We had savings of course, but that's about the only wise thing we did. So, um, and I, I just. I, I really tend to say, you know, the market is gonna tell you what, what you need, what you need to do.

And so really you could sit behind, sit in an office and create a wonderful plan. But you know, it, it's, it's really real life. And so I, I went out and I coached. Any and everyone, this person and that person, small business and personal coaching, this [00:03:00] and that. And um, and in that process I really learned who I worked really, really well with and who got the most, the best results from my work.

And, and so the last 10 years is about narrowing that target and narrowing that target and narrowing that target, knowing that that focus of who I serve. Best and for, for me, that made all, has made all the difference in the world.

Kris: Mm. And so now your clientele is really specifically sales managers. Yes. Is that okay?

Yes,

Bill: exactly. Very, very specific. Okay. I found I could not compete in the sales training space, just Google sales training. There's thousands and thousands of sales trainers and books and training programs, and I just couldn't compete there. I have some. Ideas about that. And sometimes I'll end up doing some side work related to that, but it, it's not my thing.

And I also discovered through working with a client actually on sales training, that if, [00:04:00] uh, and I'll say to my clients now, if, if you, if you roll out sales training and you don't train the managers, you're training your competition. Because if those salespeople have a bad manager, they will leave your company.

And so that's kind of what I've learned. And first I stumbled into it, and then I've leaned into it heavily because leadership affects everything I.

Kris: A hundred percent. And I think that statement is just so true and it's so strong and profound. And what a, what a wonderful way to like, make your point and make your case for why you're doing this work.

Yes. What, uh, when you talk to a potential client on the phone, what are they, what are the, what mistakes are they making and what are they really struggling with?

Bill: Yeah, so there's pain, and as you know, right, the, the, the, the hero would be completing the quest if it wasn't for the pain, the stuff that gets in the way.

And so my, my clients, and that's why the word hardworking is in our positioning statement. My clients are working [00:05:00] harder, longer for less money than they made as a sales rep. As a sales rep, they sold, and if they were above goal, they were fine. Took Friday off, you know, or Friday afternoon off. And, but, but then they thought, hey, it'd be a great idea to be a manager.

And now they're working harder, longer for less money. And so the, the problem is, is they haven't made the shift in their head that, no, you're a leader. And as a leader, you multiply yourself and others. You're not a super rep. Running here and running there and running here and running there trying to rescue as superman, the, the, the deals or the salespeople.

And so really helping this, this pain of, of, of working harder, longer for less money, helping them really learn how to lead and when they learn how to lead life becomes much easier.

Kris: Hmm. And so you talk to them on the phone and you're listening to them, their complaints, and they're probably like, why did I ever make this transition?

And this is not sustainable. I'm burning out. Yeah. And, and what [00:06:00] happens next? Do they, you know, I, I'm curious how you position your offer and how they move into an engagement with you.

Bill: Yeah, so mostly I'm not talking to my client. I'm talking to my client's manager, and so the, the frontline manager that's struggling like this doesn't have, doesn't have budget for it, and some, some will pay me out of their own pocket, but they don't have budget for it.

I'll, I'll talk often with a CEO. Or a chief revenue officer, a CRO that's watching burnout in, in their, in their sales reps and or they're watching or watching revenue not grow because of, because of this worker working, working harder, longer. And, and, you know, and I had just explained to them just the, the, the, the, the, the wheel, you know, the, the, the wheel that go round and round and round and round.

And they've probably lost some salespeople and they've. Had a few managers burnout and it just makes sense to get help. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so [00:07:00] yeah, so the, the people I tend to work with aren't the client that buys my services. Mm-hmm. And I know that's a tricky, a tricky dance, but I'll, I'll have an engagement with six coaching clients where one C-level executive will sign off on.

Kris: Got it. Yeah, it is, it's tricky. But then ultimately, once they commit, then you've got. Yeah. A bunch of people you get to work with. Yes. One of, one of the things that we talked about in your messaging, and this came from you, was this idea of like pressing the more buttons. Yes. Stop pressing the more button.

Tell us about what that means.

Bill: Well, it's funny, so I didn't make that up. So the, I think your best, your best wording comes from your clients and someone just told me that. Said, you know what? You've helped me in, you've helped me to stop, press the more button. And that, that's what sales managers tend to do.

More calls, more meetings, more, you know, and they press the more button as opposed to pressing the why button. And the why button gets down to motivation and meaning and relationship and connection. And when you press [00:08:00] the why button, you get more. When you press the MOR button, you don't get anything after a while, just people.

And so that was language someone shared with me. And then I've, I've made it part of my thing.

Kris: Isn't that great like that? We don't have to always invent Yeah. The words that we use, I tell my clients this all the time, like really think back to the calls that you're having with potential clients. In their words, we wanna meet them where they are and use the language that they use.

Yes. I think as, as coaches. We can often, like we're living and breathing this work all the time, so we can use language and lingo and we understand the nuances of the problem in a way that they don't even yet understand. So we can talk over people. Yes. And this, that simple statement just says, it says so much.

And you talk a lot about using more of a people-centered approach. Yes. And tell me what, what does that actually mean?

Bill: I ultimately, salespeople are people, it's hard to believe, [00:09:00] but they're people. And, and so if, if you're gonna get sales, you need to have people skills. You need, they need to trust you. They, they need to believe in you.

You need to know what motivates them and have a connection with them. And, and so, um. It now, it people's not everything. I mean, ultimately you have to deliver on the number, but you deliver on the number through people rather than again, more and more and more and more and more. And so I always get started first with trust and relationship and connection and motivation and, you know, that that triad we worked on together, that, you know, you know, motivate and, and multiply multi, you know, so moving from the in, in inside out, so,

Kris: hmm.

And

Bill: motivate, mobilize, multiply. I forgot my own.

Kris: Yeah. You know,

Bill: motivate, mobilize, multiply. Yes. But it, it's from the inside out.

Kris: It rings.

Bill: Yeah. And, and you ultimately have to get, you have to hit the number, but, but you hit the number [00:10:00] through your people. Not, not by driving them.

Kris: I, I think you make such a good point.

I mean, of course for your industry, but really for anyone listening, this idea of in order to make a sale, really you don't focus on the sale, you focus on the relationship that trust, that connection. It's, it's really around. That relationship. And I like to tell my clients, you're not trying to pressure them into saying yes.

You're trying to guide them to a decision that's right for them. Yes. And if it's no, that is no, not necessarily worse than a yes. You know, you don't wanna, you don't wanna work with someone who is internally a no. But telling you Yes. So yes,

Bill: and this is, this is what I refer to as selling by serving. Um, and so selling by serving in invol involves beginning to serve the client even before they have a financial relationship with you.

And so it's [00:11:00] providing an upfront assessment for free. It's providing important pieces of intellectual property for free. It's front loading your client experience into the sales process. And for me, selling feels more off. Authentic and it feels it has less sleazes to it because really all I'm doing in the selling process is giving help.

And if there's a connection in the course of giving help, we end up working together.

Kris: Right? And what's beautiful about that is the person that you're helping actually gets to experience you solving. A micro or small problem for them, and they build that confidence 'cause they have that experience. Oh, bill helped me solve this problem, so if he can help me solve this problem, he can.

So help me solve this problem. And what I love about that is, like, as entrepreneurs, we, we really do, we're wired to wanna help. This is why we're in the service business. We, we genuinely wanna help [00:12:00] people. And what that does is. Begins the relationship with generosity. Yes. And then they get this sense as humans, we do this.

When someone helps us, we feel a sense of reciprocity. And so then we wanna also, they wanna help us too. And so for the right fit and we get to work here, I can,

Bill: I can count on one hand in over 20 years that with a few fingers left, people that took advantage of that. Um, right there, there will be people that will have multiple free sessions and never, and never do anything and will, and, but very few people.

There, there will be people and you set a few boundaries and you don't do six free coaching sessions. You don't even do more than two maybe. But, and, but mostly, mostly people will honor that and respect that. And it may still be a no, A person may say no, which is fine, but at least you felt. You gave first rather than to get

Kris: Right.

And then also if a year from now they've [00:13:00] got this problem and they're ready wanting to solve it, you are top of mind when they're ready. Yes, yes. Yeah,

Bill: exactly.

Kris: Yeah, exactly. How, how does this look for your business, this idea of your lead magnet, or like how do you solve these micro problems for free?

What's your, what's your way to do that? Well, I,

Bill: I, um, I, I think right now we have to figure out how to go to our clients. I think inbound is oversaturated and, uh, I, in the last few years, no one's signing up for an email newsletter. No one's, no one's subscribing to my YouTube channel. It's great YouTube channel, but no one's subscribing it, you know, it's not happening anymore.

So inbound is broken. It's oversaturated, and people are crazy busy, so they're not doing that. We need to figure out how to go to them. This, this right here is a perfect example of going to them. And so if my clients were coaches who wanted to learn how to sell their services, I'd wanna get, I'm doing this as a favor to you.

Um, but, but [00:14:00] you know, podcasts are a great way to go to people, I think. Um. I think speaking is a great way to go to people. I think, um, upfront assessments, offering an upfront assessment is a great way to go to people and then something I call referrals in reverse. And, um, we all know about asking for referral.

People are too busy, they won't give you referrals, they won't think about it. They won't get, so what you do is LinkedIn's great for research. Go research the kind of client you wanna and then ask, Hey, can I reach out to this person and use your name? I cannot tell you how many times I've done warmed up, warmed up the call by saying, Hey, Chris Jones told me that we should talk with each other.

And that's kind of a referral in reverse. I didn't make Chris Jones to do all the research. I did the research of this person that has a great fit, who, oh, by the way, is connected with Chris.

Kris: Oh my gosh. That's brilliant. That's, yeah, that's really brilliant. Okay.

Bill: Yeah. So on a, on an, on a, on an outbound week, on a week where I'm, I may [00:15:00] have a half a dozen to a dozen of those things, you know, Chris Jones, Chris Jones suggested we talk.

Kris: Yeah. And you t typically get a response.

Bill: No.

Kris: Yeah,

Bill: no. Yeah. Uh, you don't, I mean, that's the depressing things about it. There is no magic bullet, but I'll get a response. Two or three times outta 10.

Kris: Yeah.

Bill: You know? Yeah. And then that's,

Kris: that's good.

Bill: Yeah. Well, that's better than a 3% open rate, right? Am I right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's crazy busy and there's no magic bullet, you know? Totally.

Kris: Yep. You gotta put the time in.

Bill: Right.

Kris: And the work in, and you know. Th the thing I encourage people to do is really put the time and energy into something that you actually enjoy doing, right? Yeah. So link a, a quick message on LinkedIn takes little to no time.

You've gotta do a little bit of research upfront, but podcasting, like, this is an hour long conversation, but what a, what a wonderful way. I don't. I would do the, I would wanna have this [00:16:00] conversation whether we were recording it or not. Right. Exactly. It feels fun and effortless to me, so that's kind of one thing I've leaned into just because I find it enjoyable.

You don't have to do the things that feel like drudgery.

Bill: Exactly. Yeah. Well, and see, and this is where you helped me so much, this is because what was happening is I, I know how to do all that stuff. I know how to do referrals in reverse and reach out to people. And I have the thick skin where I can send 20 emails in a day and not cry at the end of the day when no one's returned them.

You know? So I, I'm comfortable with that. It's fine. I did it as a salesperson. What, what would happen is people would go to my website. It was a train wreck there. And so you do all this work to go, or, or you'd speak or do a webinar, do a podcast, well, where are they gonna go? They're gonna go to two places in this order, LinkedIn and your website.

And, and people would go to my website and it was a mess, an absolute mess. And it was, it was unprofessional. And, and so [00:17:00] really what these assets do is they establish credibility. And you go to my website now and you go, whoa. Alright. He knows what he's talking about and I do, but I couldn't prove it before.

Kris: Right. And and then your LinkedIn profile, we updated and Yes. Refined. So when they go to your LinkedIn and then they go to your website, it's all saying the same thing, which builds Exactly. Trust and credibility. Yes. The brand, the, the, the brand's the same. Like it feels like you have taken the time to.

Show up online in a professional way, and that like those warm leads, if they listen to you on a podcast or listen to you at a talk that you give, you're right. I mean, that, that website is the center of your marketing universe. Yes. Everyone's gonna go there. They're, and they're either going to go there warm and then continue to reach out to you, or they're gonna go there warm and turn cold like they were doing Yes.

With your old website. Yes. Yeah.

Bill: Well, I don't think I ever told you this story, [00:18:00] but I had a. I had a perfect client and I had worked. I had worked weeks and weeks and weeks. I met with the CEO, I met with the sales team. I prepared a proposal the whole nine yards. It was, it was great and it was a great client.

I'd be coaching a half a dozen people, which is kind of a sweet spot. It's a big. Big enough contract. Mm-hmm. And so I went into the final meeting where the owner of the company came and the final review, and she sat down in a conference room and she had printed every page of my website. Wow. And she went page by page by page through it and said, this isn't sales.

Well this isn't sales. What's this blog post on getting in shape that's not sales. And when my when, and she goes, you're not what we need.

Kris: Oh, gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was,

Bill: I was so mad. I was, oh, my, I was so mad. So I, I went home and screamed and shattered and went to bed and woke up the [00:19:00] next day and said, all right.

Gotta fix this problem.

Kris: Right, right. You only learned that lesson one time?

Bill: Oh yeah. It was just like, oh man. Oh, who prints every page of a website? You know, there's stuff in there I didn't know was there. And she goes, totally, you can't help us. None of this stuff says what you do.

Kris: Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Bill: So that, that was like, all right.

Gotta fix this.

Kris: Yeah. Yeah. You were, when you, by the time you came to me, you were really motivated to turn things around, clean things up.

Bill: Yeah.

Kris: Get really clear on how you present yourself. Yes.

Bill: And, but I, I was, it's funny, I was clear on, I know I knew who I reached and I knew I was good at it. And so you can't write a story for someone that doesn't know that information.

You know, and so what you really helped me do is write the story for the kind of client I knew I was really, really good at.

Kris: Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah.

Bill: Yep. That's what's super important is I knew I wasn't gonna do sales training. I knew that was a black hole for me. I, 'cause I couldn't [00:20:00] compete, but sales leaders, yeah.

Most sales training tag on, you know, a 30 minute session on. Sales management. So I, I knew I had that wonderful gap in the marketplace I could exploit, and I needed someone to tell that story, not for me, but using my, using the, the, the gritty details of, of, of my experience to get that into a great story.

Kris: Right. Uh, your story is not something that's like written or invented. I, I really feel like it's already inside your head and your heart, and it's my job to really mine for that gold that's already inside yourself. So a lot of my clients and, and you included like. Their current website or their old website, when they share it with a potential client, they have this feeling of like, cringing, embarrassment.

It, it's, it's not aligned properly with who they are. So it sounds like you really were at that place with your old website. How does it feel, [00:21:00] what's it feel like now when you're sending someone your link or telling them to go visit your website?

Bill: Oh yeah. It's not, I, I'm not afraid. Um. You know, every, we all lose clients.

All right. So not every do that, we're on, but it's not because I'm, I look unprofessional, you know, so, yeah. You know, but I get more than, I, I, I don't, so I, I get much more than, than I lose, but I, no, I have no, I have no fear that when they go to a website, they're gonna get a conflicting message. Right. I don't look like that picture, though.

Really, uh, I, I've aged a little bit, but anyway,

Kris: I

Bill: don't think so. Just the other day I was thinking, I wonder if I should redo the photos.

Kris: Well, I mean, you certainly can. Um, I'm sure Brian would love to to reconnect with you and, and do another shoot, but you don't look like you've aged in my Oh,

Bill: well thank you.

Yeah, those are very kind words.

Kris: So [00:22:00] you've talked about, um, you mentioned earlier about this idea of really figuring out what you're gonna do based on what people are telling you that they need. Yeah. I wanna hear how. Once you honed in on coaching, 'cause I know when we worked together, even some new offers bubbled up and some new ways of working with clients.

How has that evolved from where it was to where it is now around? Yeah,

Bill: it's so, it's very interesting. Um, uh. I, I, I thought, and this is where the market teaches you, I really thought that training leaders would, would have a, would, would have a launch for me. And it just simply had, hasn't, um, people, and, and they've told me this again.

No. Like, for example, I did a huge training two, three years ago at a sales kickoff for the leaders. And do you know what the complaint was? We didn't get enough time with Bill. We want more one-on-one time with Bill, because I had this question and I had this question and I had this question. I almost, I [00:23:00] almost do no training at all.

My work is very customized, very one-on-one with leaders who are very motivated. And so, um, and then after COVID, we, I, I ended up doing this around the world, so, you know, four or five coaching sessions a day all around the world. Almost every week of the month, it's, and it's extremely enjoyable because it's not doing the same thing over and over again.

Right. And you're meeting actual real needs and so, mm-hmm. Very little now, very little training. And I, I, I actually think that's my best foot forward 'cause I'm kind of zingy in a room and, you know, fun and all. But I mean, who wants to travel anymore? I mean, there's all kinds of things that, that I don't have to do now, and it's a lot, a lot more, tons more effective.

I, I think people are looking for bespoke solutions is I think what I've, what I've discovered through this and um, 'cause every situation is so different that they're looking for something highly customized.

Kris: Oh, I, I [00:24:00] couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I was literally talking about this earlier today that I think people are burnout or maybe like a lot of the group work has jumped the shark a little bit.

I think, um, people have joined group. Trainings programs and not felt like they got the attention that they were really hoping for. And, and the reality is like there are probably a, a dozen different problems that you know how to solve, and people come to you with those over and over again. But everybody feels like their situation is really unique and in, in, in many ways it is.

But that's why. For my business, I've intentionally kept the one-on-ones because my clients are like, they want Yes, the deep, they want the deep work to move the needle. And, and I love it too, like, I love like going deep and really taking things off their plate for them. Like everyone's [00:25:00] working so hard.

And if I can, if my work can remove things from their plate and give them. More energy, more lift, more confidence, um, then we both feel good at the end of that. Yes. Yeah.

Bill: And then, I don't know if you found this, but I find this every once in a while, there's something you've never seen before. It's like, oh my gosh, yeah.

I've never seen this before. I need to solve this. Yeah. And so some of my greatest content has, has come from stuff that. I'd never seen before, you know, and I'll go out and research and I'll solve it for 'em. And then it obviously becomes part of your library. Now you don't solve 12, you solve 13 problems or 14, 15 problems.

So that's what's fun about the one-on-one work too. You, every once in a while you get stumped and that's great.

Kris: It, it really is great. I, I have that happen. Pretty regularly. It happened last week where I was like, wow, this project is taking me a lot longer than normal, because it was a little bit of a different flavor than a lot of, um, clients that I work with.

And I loved every minute of it. [00:26:00] Like I, I knew it could be done, and I was like chewing on that bone until I figured it out. It's like, ah, yeah. Tell me about a memorable client that you've worked with that doubled or even tripled revenue and, and how that unfolded.

Bill: Um, so I do a lot of work. It's not exclusive yet, but I do a lot of work in Series A and series B private equity firms.

And, um, I, I didn't seek them out. I kind of stumbled into them, but when, when private equity chooses to invest in a company, it needs to double or triple in three years, they want their money out in three years. And, and so I. I help leaders do that through, through being great leaders, great managers, not being freaked out about that pressure.

And it's common now. It's just common now to have that, that 20% year over year, and mostly because it has to [00:27:00] happen. Private equity will pull its funding. And, and so I, I did it at Concur and then I did it at Nintex and I've done it with recast these, these mostly SAS software firms that get an injection of money.

And enough of the p I've worked with that. I get a call when that money rolls in and we get working.

Kris: Mm mm Yeah. When the pressure's on you, you do that. It, it reminds me of like, um, public construction projects, like when there's a deadline. Yeah. And when there's like a bonus if they finish the project by this date.

Right. They'll do, they'll get it done if there's no bonus, like it could keep going and going for months.

Bill: Oh, and the narrative that there are these evil public equity firms that are stripping the value. Yeah. Maybe they exist. I'm sure they do, but that's not what's going on here. These, these companies are investing money to grow really effective software companies, and this becomes life changing money.

Mm-hmm. I, I've worked with people that [00:28:00] have, uh, will never have to work again. Oh. 'cause they had, because they had, you know, a stake in the, you know, had an equity stake in a, in a company and, and so, you know, and. It, it can be really life changing and also you don't double and triple money by, by beating up people and then you rotate a sales staff one year and then another sales staff and another.

You can't do that. The only way to make that kind of money is have a people centered approach and, and helping your people become the very best version of themselves. That's what works in the highest stakes sales organizations.

Kris: Mm-hmm. That's beautiful and I think that that trickles down to kind of. A business at every level.

Yeah. If you've got your team, you know, you really wanna nurture the team rather than, than. Pressure them or push them.

Bill: Right.

Kris: Um, as we all

Bill: know, we have a number to hit. Right. So it's this, it's, I there's this thing where, yeah, and, and we all know that, uh, the board has told us we need to do X by then, [00:29:00] so let's go do it and let's have, let's have fun and let's be our best.

It's, it's interesting right? Because the number's not irrelevant.

Kris: Right.

Bill: Alright. And so, you know, no life changing money 'cause you have an equity stake in the company that this is real, but you don't get there by freaking out.

Kris: Right. Right. Exactly. And you can, to your point, you can have fun along the way.

Doesn't have to be a slog. Yeah,

Bill: exactly. Exactly.

Kris: So as an entrepreneur, what I wanna hear from you is what's one bit of advice that you'd like to share with our listeners about being an entrepreneur and what's helped you do so well over the years? Yeah,

Bill: yeah. The number one thing is get very, very clear on who you serve.

And, and, and the people you best serve and the, the work you best do. That made all the difference. I mean, all the difference for me. And then every, you align, everything LinkedIn and your website and your signature and everything you do. But for [00:30:00] me, I was an inch deep and a mile wide, and I was here and there, and here and there, and here and there.

When I got an inch wide and a mile deep, it doubled and then tripled my business. I, I got very, very clear on who I serve, who I was best with, and, and, and how I helped them. And I. Everything flows from that clarity.

Kris: Mm, it's so good. And I think that you've touched on a common fear around that a lot of coaches have around, like, I don't wanna leave people out, but I, I, technically I can help this person with this and that person with that.

Technically I can help them, but, so I don't wanna like not, you know, talk to them, but be very clear about the problem you solve and who you solve it for. Solve one problem. That's really the key.

Bill: Yes, no. And yeah, I, I could coach technically a lot of different people, but the thing is, I'll be a generalist and not a specialist.

And as the specialist is where, where you, well, for example, you'll discover, oh my gosh, [00:31:00] you know, there's this thing going on here right now, and I'll go solve that. I wouldn't find that out if I wasn't a specialist in that area. And then you become, and, and you just don't become a, a, a mile deep, but two and three and four miles deep and then, you know.

You know, so it's super, it's really important to get clear and, and, and part of that clarity came from the marketplace, all right? So we don't like, alright, find what you love and do it, I guess. But also if what you love everyone else is doing, you gotta find, you gotta find something you also love. 'cause so part of that it, you know, I mean some of this was a strategic analysis too.

Like, alright, I'm never gonna be able to break into the sales training, you know, so finding. Finding what you love within the gap that exists in the marketplace is a, is is maybe the completion of the sentence.

Kris: Hmm, absolutely. Yeah. I think you really hit the nail on the head. Earlier when you said you started out just kind of doing a little bit of everything, you tried it all right?

Yeah. [00:32:00] You, and you, you can't skip over that part. Like it's, that's the part of getting your business going of Yes. Trying out, trying out, trying on different outfits. Right. Trying out different clients, different, solving different problems. And then eventually. Narrowing and narrowing Yes. Into your, you know

Bill: what though?

Dudes don't have outfits. I just want you to know

Kris: that. What do dudes have? I

Bill: don't know, but I think we have clothes. Well, and, and let me tell you, so, so they're, I, I learned this lesson very real in the last year or so. So some of my clients have recommended that I work with their CEO and so I, this last year I took on two or three CEO engagements and none of them got renewed.

Um. Why, because that is outside of my focus. I don't, I've, I've not been A-C-E-O-I-I, I've not worked with a board of investors. I've not been responsible. I've, everything in my life has been sales, sales management, sales [00:33:00] strategy. And I actually, I had this pit in my stomach as I got, as I was anticipating my coaching sessions with the CEOs.

And so. I don't do that. I'm not gonna do that work anymore, even though I'm asked to. I'll go, yeah. Um, but I'll recommend you to someone. And so I kind of migrated out of my inch, a wide mile deep. And I pay, you know, the company didn't collapse or anything, but it, it, I didn't have my best foot forward and I don't believe I served my clients well.

Kris: Right. Right. You dipped your toe into kind of new territory to try it out, and if it had worked great, that could have been an expansion for you, but you gotta follow the body telling you no, no. That that hit in your stomach. Yeah,

Bill: yeah, exactly. Right. Something I just, I get sales. It's intuitive to me. Right, right.

Not so much meeting with your board of investors.

Kris: So I am, I'm revising my outfit metaphor to That's awesome. To an [00:34:00] IPA metaphor. You, you tasted some different I IPAs. Yeah. You taste, you tasted a Belgian and you said, no, I'm going back to my IPAs. Exactly.

Bill: Exactly. Then you, then you, then you tasted a, a suite IPA and said, no.

No, I

Kris: don't. I don't. I want the hops.

Bill: I want the hops exactly right. No, trying on an outfit's just fine. I was giving you a hard time. I

Kris: know, I know. Alright, bill, it has been such a delight to talk with you today. Tell my listeners where we can find you.

Bill: Oh. Bill zip.com. Two Ps, bill zip.com. It's not hard. I was blessed with a weird name

Kris: and you have been very consistent with your branding over the years.

I revisited everything before our conversation today, and it's just, it's, you've stuck to the plan and I think it's working for you

Bill: well, because you get bored and that's not No. You get bored and then change everything. No. You know, a, a, a long, you know, a long walk in the [00:35:00] same direction.

Kris: Yeah. You trust the messaging.

You did the work. We did the work together. Trust the messaging and let it do the work for you. Don't spend your time refining, tweaking, refining, tweaking, like,

Bill: right.

Kris: Yeah,

Bill: exactly,

Kris: exactly right. Say, of course. Cool. Alright, bill, thank you again for your time today.

Bill: Thanks so much. See ya. Bye.

Kris: bye-Bye. Okay.

Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next.