Kris (2): [00:00:00] I am thrilled to be talking today with Donald Miller, author of Building a StoryBrand and Coach Builder.

Donald has been, he has made a huge impact on my life in. So many ways that he probably doesn't even realize. And it's been such a gift to have you, Donald, as my mentor and my friend. And today we are gonna talk about how to help coaches and consultants thrive in today's market.

Donald Miller: I love it.

Kris (2): So, Don, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Donald Miller: Well, I, I'm. I'm a husband and a dad, and, uh, that's priority for me. And then I have the, uh, the honor of, of owning a couple businesses. They kind of operate together, so it feels like one business, but one is StoryBrand, where we help businesses clarify their message. In order to do that, I certified a bunch of coaches.

To do that. So I built another business called Coach Builder, which helps coaches build their business and provides a lot of tools for them. And we expanded [00:01:00] beyond just messaging coaches into small business coaches, life coaches, executive coaches, things like that. So I, I sort of shepherd this big coaching community.

And then, uh, in my free time, not my free time, but my, my professional coaching career. Has about three clients a year, and I help them create messaging campaigns and execute those messaging campaigns. So I'm not just somebody who helps coaches. I'm actually a coach myself.

Kris (2): Yeah, yeah. You get it. You get it on all the levels.

Donald Miller: Yeah.

Kris (2): Um. Now you're very much, you have like, you're wired as an entrepreneur and a creative. Yeah. And I'm curious, like looking back, where did that begin? Like how old were you? How little were you when you, you when you realized this about yourself?

Donald Miller: Well, when I was. Uh, probably, uh, in high school, I just shortly right in high school, leaving high school, I started to write and I, I made a habit of writing.

Uh, I started writing poetry and then began writing more long form, and I went on a road trip to Oregon from Houston where I [00:02:00] grew up. When I was 21, we ran outta money in Portland. We were trying to get to Alaska, actually.

Kris:

Donald Miller: And we ran outta money in Portland. So we stayed there for a little bit and I, I ended up being there for 20 years, but soon after I got to Portland, I got a job at a publishing company just in the warehouse.

Kris: And

Donald Miller: so I, you know, my, my hobby of writing, my desire to be a writer, I got to see sort of firsthand what writers do, how they get published, how they promote books, how they make books. And then I became president of that company within about four years. So I was a very young, I was probably 27 president of this company, and we became the fastest growing company in our, in our industry.

And so I, I had a knack for business early on, but then I started writing my own book at, at night about that road trip. It was in a Volkswagen van. So I wrote this book about a road trip and it was published. I, I got it published 'cause I knew some people in publishing obviously. And um, and then I wrote another book that ended up on the New York Times for almost a year, and that then I just took all my entrepreneurial stuff and kind of put it away and [00:03:00] did book readings and spoke and went around and talked about my book and the royalties were enough to live off of.

And then, um, uh, we went to make a movie about that specific book about eight, nine years later, and I took all the money I had and invested it in that movie, and the movie failed. And so I lost everything. That was the moment that I became an entrepreneur, yes,

outta necessity to try to claw back everything I had just lost in a really terrible decision. Uh, I say it was a terrible decision. It was actually wonderful because making the movie, uh, I met some folks who are still very, very close friends and. You know, it wasn't that much money that I lost. It was all of my money.

But, uh, but then started to figure out, wait, I gotta somehow get everything I lost back because we grew up really poor and I, I had a fear that I was gonna be really poor. So I started a business and then remembered how much I liked growing a business, and that became StoryBrand [00:04:00] Consulting and certifying coaches, and then we kind of moved on from there.

So that, that's a little bit of, of how I got to be doing this.

Kris (2): So you started with StoryBrand and you traveled around, did StoryBrand workshops? Yes. Getting proof of concept of the book then? Yeah, before I wrote the

Donald Miller: book, we probably did 20 or 30 of those workshops, which really helped.

It helped to work it out and lecturing to figure out what the actual framework should be. It was, it was definitely tested.

Kris (2): I heard you mentioned at one point that you were just kind of surprised at how well it worked, which makes me

Donald Miller: laugh. Yeah, like, well, we, we, we built the framework 'cause I had a little conference going and we used it to create a messaging campaign for our conference.

And the conference more than doubled. I mean, it, it, uh, I mean there were 350 people. We ended up with 2,400 people. So whatever that is. Uh, you know, coming to this conference and we didn't spend any money on advertising. We just talked about it differently. We invited attendees into a story in which they solved a problem by attending [00:05:00] this conference, which was the essence of the framework.

Kris: And,

Donald Miller: um, and so I, I knew it worked for me, but, you know, I wasn't quite sure that it would work for anybody else. So I, I lightly put out feelers that I've got this framework and can help you clarify a message. And I, Kris, the first call was Proctor and Gamble. I.

Kris (2): Oh my gosh.

Donald Miller: Yeah, so we flew to Cincinnati.

We met with them when they were in the middle of their Queen Latifah campaign. And I remember just thinking I'm in a room with some of the smartest marketing people in the world. I've never done marketing. I've, I wrote a, I, I didn't even write a book about messaging. I, this was before the book, but I'd done some workshops.

And I just remember sitting there rather cocky and a and, and, uh, arrogantly sharing my opinion about what Queen, queen Latifah should be doing. I remember we were like sort of having an outof body experience just going, what are you doing? What, what do you know anything? What do you shut? Stop talking. But I did, I had very strong opinions and, um.

They liked those opinions. And then Ford Lincoln called after that. Those were literally the first two. Oh wow. Uh, Ford never [00:06:00] paid us anything. They, they sought our opinion on things, which, which I think they probably do with a lot of people 'cause they're smart. Uh, and uh, and then that was, you know, we were off to the races at that point.

Kris (2): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think when I got exposed to the framework. You had your podcast, but the book wasn't out yet and I, it resonated with me. On such a deep level that I knew I had to learn more and like become more masterful at the framework. And of course, I applied it to my own business to learn and to fit, try it out, and to play with it a little bit and then never looked back like it.

It started overnight. People started coming to my website and traveling to Portland. I had two people, like the month after I implemented the framework. Two potential clients. One took a train and one road trip to Portland to meet with me, to hire me. Wow. And I was like, whoa, this is magic. And that was amazing.

Of course. But. What's been more fun for me is really watching it time and time and time [00:07:00] again, work for my clients. It's so beautiful. It, it's, it's, everybody should be doing it and I'm so grateful that, that it's become kind of common knowledge within the entrepreneurial groups. Um. Which is really great.

So you, StoryBrand like, got a lot of traction, got a lot of sales, and that really built the foundation of your business and, and since then things have evolved. Like now you've, you really engaged in Coach Builder and tell us what's, what's going on. Like, how has this evolved and where are you heading?

Donald Miller: Well, I, I love, I discovered that the, the two things that I love. When I say love, what I, what I really mean is I can talk about them and have conversations about them without getting drained. I mean, they just, it just gives me energy. I'm something of an introvert, so I. Probably a little bit of social anxiety, but the, you know, interacting with folks and making small talk is, is really, really exhausting to me.

It's very, very difficult unless we're talking about messaging [00:08:00] and, and, and unless we're talking about how to grow a business. And so I just love those topics and I love learning more and learning from what other people have done. So, uh, you know, we've helped tens of thousands of small businesses. But as a coach, when I started helping coaches build their coaching business, I understood all the nuances much better.

And I, uh, it, I felt like I was helping myself, uh, by helping them. And so creating a community of coaches, and we're nearly a thousand strong now, creating a community of coaches who are all trying to help clients. Clarify their message or grow their business or come up with a life plan or mm-hmm. You know, identify core values and mission statement, things like that.

Um, that, that feels very close to home to me. And those are the businesses that I care the most about. Uh, and so now I kind of feel like I have this, this family of coaches who've come together and sort of thrown our fortunes in with each other. And, uh, so I think where it's going, you know, we have about a thousand coaches.

We wanna, a pass through goal will be about 2,500, [00:09:00] but I'd love to see a day when we have 25,000 coaches and in all, all sorts of coaches, you know, um. People who are selling their wisdom and helping others succeed, I think is a, it's a lifestyle. I understand. It's a business that I understand. Uh, and I think I have something to, to offer in that space.

Uh, often when our coaches come into the community, they, they're attracted to my books or to me, and then they discover the value of each other. And so for me to also facilitate a community is really exciting as well. I.

Kris (2): Mm. So tell me, what's the biggest mistake that coaches and consultants make?

Donald Miller: They don't own a problem. It's the same with every small business. Um, you know, if you just say I'm a coach, it's very hard for me to figure out how, how or, or not have a, why I should hire you. Uh, but the, the, the thing that makes people want to spend their money, whether it's on. You know, an item at Walgreens or a coach relationship is that they're trying to solve a problem.

And so when you [00:10:00] identify the problem that you solve as a coach, your business starts to uptick. It's, that's, that is difficult for a lot of coaches because they, they actually do solve a lot of problems. The problem with that is you can't be known for solving a lot of problems. You can really only be known for solving one.

Now, once you start solving that problem, you can unpack 'cause you're in relationship now because you can unpack other problems that you solve and, and you can get into other things. But, um, I think that's the number one problem that every coach really sort of needs a niche market. There's a guy, we just, his name is Dan Go, and we just talked about him on a podcast episode, uh, on why he's been successful.

He's, he's moderately successful, has about two and a half million Instagram followers, a big YouTube channel. He's a physical trainer slash nutritionist kind of personality, but he only works with entrepreneurs. And I just thought that's. Fascinating. 'cause an entrepreneur's body doesn't work any differently than anybody else's body, but because he niched down, he was able to build a brand much, much faster,

Kris (2): right?

And so, [00:11:00]

Donald Miller: you know, he's able to say things like, an entrepreneur's life is unique. It's different, it's harder to stay fit, it's harder to eat right because of the schedule. Therefore, I'm only going to give advice to these people. So you really want one of two things, if not two of two things. What is the main problem I solve for Dan?

It's nutrition and being fit. Uh, and then who, who's demographic, what demographic do I wanna own? And he, he just chose entrepreneurs. I honestly think if he offered fitness advice, he, he would have so much competition that we probably wouldn't know who he is. Uh, but because he picked a narrow niche market, he can grow.

And the beautiful thing about that is he can expand out of that market. At any time, you know, now that he's got two and a half million followers, he can launch a book, he can launch a product and he can expand out of that. I think Dr. Becky is a good example of a thought leader who has built an incredible platform.

She's, she's my go-to. I. Parenting coach. I follow her on Instagram. It is amazing how I'll deal with something with my 4-year-old. You know, she's throwing tantrums for the first time and I'm like, wait, this is different. And then Dr. [00:12:00] Becky will show up on my Instagram and say, is your 4-year-old throwing tantrums for the first time?

She might as well say my name. You know, she is my guru. And I'm, I talked to her, I'm like, yes she is. What do I do? Dr. Becky help me. You know, she owns parenting. She is a psychologist. She could give great marriage advice. She could great, great leadership advice, but she's smart enough not to do that. So I think for every coach you wanna figure out, you know, for me it's messaging.

As much as I love helping people build their coaching business, I'm probably never in my life gonna get out of the messaging lane. And the only clients that I personally take are clients who need. Messaging campaigns, they need help and knowing how to say it and then how to disseminate that, that, those soundbites.

So I, I own that and, uh, there's some people competing with me out there, but I get to own that. And, and so for me it was very, it was very strategic to say, Hey, Don Miller's gonna own messaging and he's gonna own, if you have a confusing messaging, he's gonna help you say it. Uh, and you know, I, I. Owning that mental real estate in the body [00:13:00] politic.

I think that is what every coach needs to sit and think about. Spend some time saying, okay, what problem do I wanna own? And I think two things need to be true there. One is I. You, you need to, three things really. You need to be very competent at solving that problem. You don't have to be competent at a lot of things, but you need to be competent at that.

And then, uh, you need to like, it, it needs to light you up and give you energy and excite you because that's gonna, that's gonna make the work a lot easier. Um, and then. Three. You need to monetize it. You need to figure out, okay, how do I charge for this and what do, what products do I sell that help people solve this problem?

I think if you can do those things as a coach, you're, you've probably got job security for a really long time.

Kris (2): Yeah. And I think, you know, to your point, you made the decision, right? You are not, you didn't wait for permission or someone to tell you that you decided I wanna be known as the messaging story guy.

Well, and

Donald Miller: it was really, it was a little, yeah, it was a little bit of that, but it was a little bit of realizing that was happening.

Kris:

Donald Miller: And saying, okay, if this is happening, if this is where the wind is blowing, I never get tired of talking about it. I've given the StoryBrand framework talk. [00:14:00] You know, it's gotta be more than a thousand times now.

And if I got up on a stage and gave it today, it would feel like the first time. I just don't get tired of it. And so that's a good thing. That's a good sign. And so, um, I decided to pour jet fuel on that. You know, if people are saying that you're the messaging guy, then I'm gonna say, okay, well, and that's another thing for coaches, what are people telling you?

You are

Kris (2): right. So

Donald Miller: you may be, you may have this ambition to be something, but everybody's telling you you're this. I would ask you to say, to, to ask yourself the question, should you just be that and should you own that and do the best you possibly can, and would that be a satisfying life for you? Because that's what, that's how people perceive you.

Kris (2): Right, and we're, we're inside the bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from the outside, right? So often other people can look at our bottle and read the label and be like, Y you're brilliant with this, with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I liken it. I tell my clients, you know, pick one color for your front door.

You know, you, you don't want 18 colors on your front door. Tell them when you, when come to my house, [00:15:00] look for the red door. That's my house. When they come in, of course you're gonna have different rooms, different different colors inside, but come, everybody comes through that front door, which is the one problem that you solve,

Donald Miller: right?

Yeah. The thing that you're known for and, and what a luxury it is to be known for anything. Uh, but what I think what people don't understand is somebody like Dr. Becky or Dave Ramsey with financial advice, or you know, you there's a thousand of Andrew Huberman, uh, Peter Atia with longevity. You know, the, they have strategically made an effort to be known as the person who solves this problem.

And there's some work that goes into it, but anybody listening to my voice can do that. Uh, it's not by accident.

Kris (2): Yeah, I, I've been following Dr. Becky a long time and I've watched her messaging evolve and she used to be kind of the parenting coach for all kinds of kids, and, and she still does that if you come into her community.

She, she does, but she's really leaned into what she calls the DFK's [00:16:00] deeply feeling kids, and it's all the parents that have kids were the typical parenting strategies just don't work. Right. And they're wired differently. They feel differently. They're, they res, they don't respond to the way that most parenting advice provides.

It's interesting.

Donald Miller: She, she, let's take her for an example and, and just see what we can extrapolate in terms of learning how to build a coaching business Probably. Most parents would identify their kid as deeply feeling, even if they're not right, because they, they are at a stage where they're throwing tantrums and things like that.

Yeah. She also has, so she's identified a problem. She's named the problem, which is really amazing. Like, what, what if, what if every coach listening to me could actually name a problem? 'cause if you've named that problem, you have no competition. You name, you literally named it. Right, right, right. But yeah, now you, now you really own it.

Right? Uh, and then second, she has a paradigm shift. She has sort of one big idea, and she talks about this big idea a lot. And the big idea is that kids are good inside. [00:17:00] Actually. They're not bad inside. They're good inside. And that's another thing that we can all learn from. You know what, what's the big idea that is uniquely yours?

What's the problem you solve? What's that problem called? And feel free to give it your own name. And then what's the big idea that solves that problem? And then you can spend the le rest of your life explaining how to solve the problem, or holding people's hands, or being a consultant and going in and just solving the problem for them.

Kris (2): Would you say that idea that kids are good inside is her philosophical statement?

Donald Miller: Uh, I would say her philosophical statement, uh, would be something like parenting doesn't have to be that hard.

Kris:

Donald Miller: Or shouldn't be that hard. I think the, the where it's, it's a little confusing, but where the, where the kids are good inside probably fits is in the plan, you know, so if you, step one is to understand that your kid is not a bad kid.

That they're good inside. Step two is to begin to treat them as such, you know, and step three is, you know, so I would actually stick that in the plan.

Kris (2): Yeah, I like it. Okay. So there's a lot [00:18:00] happening like politically, economically, there's just, uh, changes in the air, I would say in the last year for sure. Um, people tend, or what I'm hearing from.

S some of my coaching friends that people are holding onto to their money a little bit tighter. Yeah.

Donald Miller: Yeah. There's uh, definitely a lack of consumer confidence right now.

Kris (2): Right. What, what can coaches do differently to overcome that?

Donald Miller: I, you know, I think there's a couple things. It's a fantastic question, and it is not just coaches, it's all, all people in business.

But yeah, I tend to look at the news through the lens of messaging and. I under. So, you know, the, the messages right now that are affecting consumer confidence, they are not affecting the economy because the economy is strong. Jobs are up. Uh, the Dow Jones is up. Uh, our 4 0 1 Ks are up. People actually have money.

So let's say analyze the messages. I think there's, there's messages about tariffs and trade negotiation and unsettled [00:19:00] trade negotiation that, uh, is, is affecting the economy. And everybody's wondering, okay, we actually don't know what the future looks like here. Um, but a lot of that is just bluster. It's just messaging.

It's, it's, it's not actually policy. I mean, these tariffs, they tend to announce them and then take them back and. You know, Trump likes to, um, he likes to affect things and he likes to feel powerful. And then when they. When they're gonna make people miserable, he backs off, you know? 'cause he, he also likes to be liked.

And so that, that's it, that's, that explains the whole Trump presidency. I want feel powerful, but I want you to like me. And so he's always doing things and then backing out of 'em. Um, that, so if you look at it as a messaging issue, you just go, okay, I see what they're doing here. Uh, the same with ai. Uh, artificial intelligence would be the second thing that's affecting.

Consumer competence because we really don't know what the future looks like. However, if somebody like Peter Zion, who's a geopolitical guy who I, I admire, and he's, he's sometimes wrong, but [00:20:00] he's often right. He, he would say that like. Two evolutions of chat GPT from now are impossible for 20 more years because the semiconductors haven't been invented and the power grid won't allow it to happen.

So whatever's happening with AI is not gonna change a whole lot for another 20 years. Now that message is gonna get buried by the press because it's not scary. And it's not sensational,

Kris (2):

Donald Miller: So sadly, all jobs are gonna be replaced and you know your children will never drive a car. Have you, have you heard that your kids are not gonna drive a car, they'll be self-driving cars.

Have you ever heard that anywhere? You know, that's a popular message. It's completely untrue.

Kris: You know,

Donald Miller: the, the everybody has pulled out of self-driving car funding. Your kids are gonna drive cars. But that, those messages are. Are put in place because people are incentivized to say shocking statements in order to sell advertising and get clicks, right?

So the economy's gonna be fun. In my opinion. So that's, that's thing number one, realize you're okay. However, this is really how people feel, right? People are holding onto their money. Inflation, by the way, is [00:21:00] real. You know, people are spending more at the grocery stores, so they're, they're being careful about their money.

Um, so my advice to anybody trying to grow a business is, one, don't buy into the doomsday rhetoric. It's not true. It's almost, with the exception of the Great Depression, it's never been true. Uh, and then the second thing is. If people sense that a ship is going down, they look for the life raft. Therefore, you need to be in the life raft business, you know?

And if you're a coach, you need to say things like in these uncertain times when you don't know what the future looks like, you're gonna need help. You're gonna need perspective. You're gonna need a guy. You're gonna need to know where the advantages are. You're gonna need some accountability. That's why I'm gonna coach you through this difficult time.

Well, you just positioned your coaching business not as a luxury. You positioned it as the life raft, and so people tend to look for the life raft. We did this during COVID. Now my business was 85% dependent on people getting on airplanes, coming to Nashville, Tennessee when COVID happened in March. And we knew we were gonna [00:22:00] lose 80 per 85% of our revenue.

So what we did was we emptied out my living room and turned it into a studio and said, we're gonna take all of our workshops online. And I got together with Mike Mitz and we did a big webinar on how to prepare for the immediate future that COVID is going to cause. Well, that got me tens of thousands of email addresses.

And then I said, in a time when you just, you, you may not even be able to open up your brick and mortar. You may not be able to have anybody in your restaurant. You may not be able to go into anybody's home. You need to clarify your message now more than ever, because if, if you have a muddy message, you're gonna be the one who everybody ignores.

And we did, uh, we did about 30% more business than we'd ever done. In the year when we were supposed to do 85% less.

Kris:

Donald Miller: And what I kept telling my team was, life raft, life raft, life raft continue to position us as the life raft. And by the way, I wasn't lying. You know, those businesses, those restaurants that had to pivot and change [00:23:00] their website to a delivery outfit, we, we got them critical messaging that helped them grow during those times.

Uh, many of them. And so, um, you know, there's some way that your business helps people survive and you need to, you need to talk about that.

Kris (2): Yes. Just a moment to absorb that information. That was so good. So we've talked about, you know, the power of being known for solving one problem. What are two more things that every coach needs to get more clients?

Donald Miller: One is, it's a big StoryBrand paradigm shift that, you know, it's the customer is the hero and you're the guide. So it's tempting probably for every coach or every entrepreneur, every small business owner to make themselves the hero of the story and tell their story. I think that's bad messaging. I think what you actually need to do is position the customer as the hero of the story and yourself as the guide.

So let's unpack that for a second. In stories, you have heroes. You have, Rudy wants to play for Notre Dame, ET wants to get home. You know, on and [00:24:00] on. Uh, and then you have, you have guides. Guides would be like, Haymitch, who helps? Katness in the Hunger Games, Mary Poppins, who helps transform the lives of the family, especially Mr.

Banks. Uh, the Guide is an interesting character in the story. They are strong, they're equipped, they have usually solved the problem that the hero is suffering from in their backstory, and now they're here to help the hero in the day. You want to position yourself as the guide for a couple reasons. One is if you position yourself as the hero, which a lot of companies do, and they do it to their own, it damages their own company when they do it.

You're positioning yourself as a weak character. 'Cause all heroes are weak. They're weak, and it's only the last nine minutes of the movie that they're strong. Until then, they're ill-equipped, afraid, don't know what to do, don't wanna take action, and desperate need of help. It's absolutely not the way you wanna position yourself, and so you don't wanna do that.

The the second thing is if your customer is a hero in a story and you position yourself as a hero in a story, you're in separate stories. You've just removed yourself from their story. So what you actually want to do is position yourself as the guide. So [00:25:00] when somebody says to you, you know, what do you do for a living?

I would say, you know, I, I wrote books for years and I learned how to communicate very clearly, and then I met a lot of people who ran businesses, and I just noticed how confusing all of their messaging was. They couldn't communicate clearly. And it broke my heart. 'cause it was, it would just be so easy to change a few words and double the size of their businesses.

And so I became a messaging coach and I wrote a book about it. Well, did I actually just tell my story? I didn't. What I did was I identified my customer's problem and then positioned myself as the guy who helps 'em solve that problem. I didn't tell you where I went to school. I didn't tell you I'm married.

I didn't tell you I'm a dad. I didn't tell you any of that. I didn't tell, I didn't position myself as the hero. I told the part of my story that positioned me as the guide in the customer's life. That stature, that positioning yourself that way is critical to growing a business. And you know, I, I was watching, uh, uh, an [00:26:00] episode of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee.

Kris (2): Yeah, I love it.

Donald Miller: It's a great show. Yeah. Seinfeld interviews comedians and he drives him around. They go get coffee and they talk. He was with Seth Rogan and Seth, on numerous occasions, at least two would ask Seinfeld a question and it with, he was a master at spinning out of that question. A master, he.

They, he would say, they would say something like, uh, you know, Seth would say, it's probably hard for you to walk into a coffee shop without getting mobbed. And, you know, any, any amateur would go, oh gosh, it is, it's so difficult. And I remember one time and blah, blah, blah. And that's not what Jerry Seinfeld did.

Jerry Seinfeld said. Yeah. I mean, it can be, are you comfortable? And he just immediately wow. Out of it. Right? And I think Seinfeld knows this is not about me. Mm-hmm. And that's why we love him so much. He just doesn't make it about him. He knows his job is to entertain you. He knows he's not your guide or [00:27:00] coach or whatever.

That's not his job. And he's not gonna make it about him. He's gonna kind of make you think. He answered the question right, but then he's gonna turn around, he's gonna get it right back to you.

Kris (2): And

Donald Miller: that is what really confident masters of their crafts are able to do. And it's what we as coaches need to do.

Kris:

Donald Miller: Now, I think with your spouse and your friends, and there's that, it's, it's the, the rules don't apply there because you, it's a human need to tell your story and to be known by people, not your clients. It's not your job. And when I go into a message, you know, strategy session, we talk about the, the client's business, we don't talk about mine,

Kris: right?

Donald Miller: So I always have to be the guide helping the hero win because that's who they're really looking for,

Kris (2): right? I have clients tell me often what if my story is boring? I don't have a good, I don't have a good story. Yeah, you don't need one. You don't need one. I say it doesn't matter that your story is about your client.

You are, you are [00:28:00] very important. Yeah. And you character in it. But

Donald Miller: you know, if, if, if you insist, like, if you insist, no, I want to tell my story. I, I say, okay, you can do that, but I want you to just tell part of it and the, the, the story that I want you to tell is why you care so much about this problem and you don't want people to suffer from it anymore.

Mm-hmm. If you have that backstory, by the way, that's called the backstory of the guy, tell it all day long. Mm-hmm. Tell it all, you can talk about yourself all day long, but only why you care, right. About the customer. Right. Right. And there was, it's interesting, there's a woman in my mastermind named Emily, and she has a business.

Where she pursues the money that insurance companies owe pediatricians. So insurance companies try not to pay. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. And so 20 to 30% of the money that a pediatrician is owed does not get paid because the insurance company isn't paying it. So she actually works with the insurance companies to get the pediatricians paid.

I asked her, I said, you know, we, we were wire framing a website for her, and I said, we've got this bio here. My, my [00:29:00] philosophy of a bio bio is don't tell your story. Say why you care. And I say, Emily, you're in a very unique business. I mean, you know, it's very, very niched down. I mean, insurance companies at OP pediatricians, like there's, you're the only person with planet doing this.

Why? And she said, I don't know. I just, I just think they deserve to get paid. I go, no, that can't be true. Mm-hmm. If you cannot have stumbled upon this. I go, tell me like, how'd you grow up? She goes, well, my mom was a pediatrician. I go, oh, that's interesting.

And what sort of tension did you have in the house?

She goes, well, we always had financial tension because the insurance companies wouldn't pay us. And she looked at me and just went, oh my word. She had never connected it ever.

Kris: Right?

Donald Miller: And I said, well, what happened? She goes, my mom ended up in the hospital. Stress related illnesses because she couldn't pay bills and when she was in the hospital, my dad.

Took over the billing for the pediatrician stuff and discovered these insurance companies were running this scheme. And he fixed it. And I said, what happened after that? She goes, we didn't have any stress. My mom got better and we opened another practice. [00:30:00]

Kris (2): Oh my gosh. And I

Donald Miller: said, do you understand what your story is, Emily?

She goes, I can't. I'm embarrassed. I never ever thought of it. And we sat, we wrote that down. Now when a pediatrician reads this, they're gonna go, this lady isn't in it for the money. This lady's in it for my family. And this lady understands it 'cause her mom went to the hospital, her. So can you tell your story?

It's very important that you tell your story, but you tell it from the perspective of the backstory of the guide, the backstory of how this guide became so competent to help these heroes and you know, and if you have some pain or you have a friend who had some pain. That the customer has and that motivated you to start solving this problem.

That's a really, really wonderful story.

Kris (2): Mm, yeah. It's a very nuanced way to tell your like about me section. Right. It appears to be about you, but it's really about you as it relates to the hero and what it's really, it's, yeah. It's

Donald Miller: really about the customer and why you, why you specifically care about them.

What happened to you that you care so much about. Yeah. Yeah. You know, this issue.

Kris (2): Yeah. I think a lot of, of coaches and [00:31:00] business owners feel like they need a really interesting backstory and they, or they really wanna tell that. And, and I always say, great, if you wanna tell that, you can tell that that's for you.

That's not the story that's gonna make you money. The, the story that's gonna build your business is really inviting, inviting your hero into a story with you.

Donald Miller: Yeah. You know, they're, they're in. They're in desperate need of help. And what's interesting though is if you position yourself as the guide and they begin to trust you and you actually help them, then they actually wanna know who you are, right?

I mean, I, I had like knee surgery a couple of few years ago and I walk in and Dr. Rob's office. Do you, I mean, I don't really want to know Dr. Rob's story. I wanna know if he's competent to. Rip open my knee. You know what I Right?

Kris (2): Yeah.

Donald Miller: And then when he, when he was able to deliver an unbelievable, uh, you know, result for me personally, then I was like, who the heck is this guy?

I'd like to know who this guy is. I sent him a game [00:32:00] of cornhole for he and his family, you know, and, uh, I changed my wife. He fixed my knee. Uh, so you, you know, that, that desire you have to be known. Let's, let's not bury it, but let's put it off a little bit. And let's, let's, let's be known as somebody who's competent to solve the customer's problem first.

By the way, what you're gonna get when you do that is respect.

You're people are gonna go, I, I have such admiration for this person because they solved a problem for me. Mm-hmm. And I just love them. Now they're interested in who you actually are.

Kris (2): Right, right. Yeah. Your doctor cared about your struggles and your success, number one, right?

And he worked with you around that, and then you were like, okay, who is this guy? Then all

Donald Miller: of a sudden I realized. This is a human being who went to med school somewhere. And you know, because before that I was just in pain. I mean, my, my knee hurt like, are you the guy to help me fix this?

Kris (2): Right.

Donald Miller: The, and I think that's the way a lot of your customers are.

They're in pain. You know, if you're a coach, you're only dealing with people who are struggling with something. Right. And you know, if it's, if you're a business coach, they can't make [00:33:00] payroll or they're worried, or they, you know, they don't know any good tax strategies or those sort of things and, uh, you know, honor the fact that they're in pain.

You know, don't make it about you.

Kris (2): Right. Uh,

Donald Miller: let's help them first,

Kris (2): right? And help them really like. Not feel alone in their pain. I think sometimes heroes have been with the pain long enough that they've kind of forgotten about it. It's become like the frog in boiling water. Like

Kris: yeah,

Kris (2): it, it, it's still painful, but they've grown kind of used to it.

And so it can be really helpful to kind of articulate the problem in a way that reminds them like, you're struggling with this, but there's a better way and I can help you out of it.

Kris: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Kris (2): So you and I are collaborating on a book right now, which is, no, I couldn't be more

Kris: excited about it.

Kris (2): I am so thrilled to be collaborating with you and this, not to give everything away, but it's really a, a story brand book specifically for coaches and really.

Really, [00:34:00] um, tangible ways to apply StoryBrand to a coaching business and to do it in a way where ideal clients say yes. So why is this book important right now?

Donald Miller: Well, you know, I, we have the idea of doing building a StoryBrand for coaches for obvious reasons. Coaching is close to my heart. Building a story brand is the framework that I created, but also.

We wondered what it would look like to actually help a specific industry clarify that message. 'cause you know, the book building of StoryBrand is, is, is done well, but it has to stay very broad. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. I mean, I've worked with everybody from national security to people who are selling Phish food and, you know, it's gotta reach all those people.

So we thought the, the unique needs and challenges of a coach, you know. Not wanting to talk very much about themselves, not being super comfortable with that. Sometimes wondering how to create a coaching product and sell it, how, you know, those sorts of things. Uh, we thought this might deserve a book. And what, what I'm really proud of with the book that we're collaborating on and that you're doing a lot of the writing for [00:35:00] is the actual StoryBrand part of it is.

Really quick. I mean, it's like 10 pages. And instead of sort of pretending and adding coaching language to the existing book, we actually have a couple hundred pages of specific strategies on how to get your message out there as a coach. Mm-hmm. And it's a completely different and new book than building a StoryBrand.

Just a little summary of the framework at the beginning. So I, you know, I'm, I'm very, very excited for this to hit the market. I, I think it's gonna be one of those books that, that tens of thousands of coaches sort of look back and say, that was the moment when I read, when I read that, or I listened to the audio book.

That was when I realized I can do this and I can have a, a high six figure and maybe even seven figure coaching business and really transform lives.

Kris (2): Yes. Okay. Coming soon.

Donald Miller: Coming soon.

Kris (2): Um. You and I both became parents a little bit later in life. Yeah. I think we have that in common, which I think is like the perfect time to have kids.

'cause you know, you've,

Donald Miller: you, you're a lot smarter.

Kris (2): You're a lot smarter. Yeah. It's still, it's still it, you [00:36:00] know, uh, it's a difficult journey and a joyful one as well. Um, I'm curious, like I can talk all day long about how having my son. Made me a better person, but ultimately forced me to have really good boundaries Yes.

Around my work. Yeah. And, and to be more strategic about how I work with my clients. And I'd love to hear how Emmaline has impacted your business

Donald Miller: life. Y yeah. It's, it's for being a dad, it has forced me to. Compartment my, compartmentalize my work into specific hours of the day. Uh, and what's amazing is, well, the same thing happened when I got married, because I got married at 42 and became a dad at 49 and at 42, I was convinced.

I was gonna make a lot less money, was not gonna be able. But what happened when, when I actually had to compartmentalize my work into a certain number of hours, is I, I found that I was more focused and I worked harder. And I would [00:37:00] say my productivity doubled after getting married. Mm-hmm. And yet I was home by five every day.

And I didn't work on weekends, which was completely different than the way I used to live. So it's been 42 years just working all the time.

Kris (2): Me too.

Donald Miller: Yeah. I, I mean, I loved it. It didn't bother me at all. No. Uh, and, but that's, that's a great way to wreck a marriage. Right. So, uh, and then, but I would say with parenting it's, it's harder, but have been able to maintain about 90% of that productivity.

Even after becoming a dad, and I'm home pretty much every day by 4:00 PM and so I spend about 30 minutes to an hour with Emmaline in the morning, and then after 4:00 PM till she goes to bed at seven, she's four. So she's still gonna bed pretty early. We get those three hours together and then summer, all three hours are in the swimming pool.

You know, that's what we do. And then often I'm able to run home for lunch and spend a little time with her too. Um, I just knew, you know, that that decision came because the, one of the benefits is, you know, of being a parent when you're older is you're sort of done proving yourself. You know, you know who you are, so you don't have to go out and prove [00:38:00] anything, even if you're ambitious.

Uh, and you also know that you're gonna regret. Not spending this time with your kid, even if it's annoying and hard and you, you're just, you know, you're going to regret it. Because you can't get this time back. So, I would say it was a giant upside to me. And the, uh, and it, it's also, I think, helped me as a person.

I've noticed that I relate so much more strongly to my clients because I, under, I, I, I sort of understand. A part of their life that I did, I just didn't understand before, you know? Yeah. I'd call somebody and say, Hey, I gotta take this football game. Can you, you know, it starts in an hour. Do you want me to pick you up?

And they're just like, whatcha are you talking about? Can you, what, what universe do you live in? I can leave in an hour. Uh, you know, so that I, now, I, I, let's just say I made a lot of calls and apologize to a lot of guys, assuming that they could just do that. Um. Yeah. You know, and even now there's some rules.

Uh, I I really, it's gonna be very difficult to do, and I've certainly not mastered it, but I, I [00:39:00] don't want emmaline to have memories of me holding a phone. Mm. So I literally walk into my house. I put the phone on the credenza. I just don't pick it up. Um, and that's not she, if you asked Emmaline, you ever see dad with his phone?

She would say yes. Uh, because I've broken that rule many times. But to me, those just, just being able to be home by four or five o'clock. Not have my phone with me. If I, if I go anywhere with a family, I literally don't take it. I physically leave it. Wow. Uh, and, and then I just eye contact. But, you know, I thought being a dad was gonna be really difficult and hard and, you know, there's certainly, I.

Uh, certain hard aspects to it, but honestly, if you just don't have your phone with you and you make eye contact, that's like 90% of a connecting with any human being. It's so it's going okay so far,

Kris (2): right? Right. It's not, it's not complicated, right. It's no relatively simple, but yeah, the phone piece is. Is huge.

So much. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, Don, thank you so much for your time today. My pleasure and such a joy. Um, tell, tell my [00:40:00] listeners where do you wanna send them? Where can they get more of your beautiful wisdom?

Donald Miller: Well, if you're gonna coach builder.com, you can see all the resources that we offer coaches. And I wrote a book called Coach Builder.

That has eight steps to building a coaching business. So it's things like wire framing your website, you know, getting your, your message out there, uh, all of which, uh, red door design can do for you. So I'll give a little plug there. Uh, but, you know, a lot of coaches are really great at coaching, but they, they actually just don't know how to grow a business and monetize.

So they're missing out on a lot of opportunities there. And so I wrote Coach Builder to help 'em out. So Coach Builder would be the book, coach builder.com would be the place to go. Mm.

Kris (2): Amazing. All right. Thank you so much.

Donald Miller: My pleasure, Kris. Good to talk to you again.