[00:00:00] Kym_: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Traveling Therapist podcast. Really excited to have our guest today. Kris Jones is with us. She's not a therapist, but I mean she probably could relate to a lot of us therapists, especially those of you listening that are super entrepreneurial and maybe trying to build other income streams, digital products, sort of thing.

[00:00:22] Kris is a marketing expert and she has a signature system that she's gonna tell us about how to help you scale your business if you want to. How to help with your marketing, how to attract more of your ideal customers, even those of you that aren't therapists. Learning how to incorporate your story into attracting your ideal client. Kris is the expert with that.

[00:00:43] So Kris, welcome. I'm so excited to have you here and hear about your journey and how you got to where you are and then how you help others do the same thing. So I'd love if you could tell us about yourself.

[00:00:53] Kris: Yeah. Kim, thank you for having me. I'm really thrilled to be here. I'm, just fascinated by the concept of the traveling therapist and the freedom, the freedom that comes with that, because That's why I love the work that I do. Not only do I get to feel a sense of freedom being self-employed, but I get to help my clients make more money, which allows them to have more freedom, being self-employed as well. So I think it is just the ticket to, to joy and happiness in life

[00:01:25] Kym_: It's an amazing life.

[00:01:26] Kris: It really is, and it's such an honor to get to help people you know, get better at it and make more, and work less and have more fun. Mm-hmm. So, gosh, where do I begin? I've been doing this work for so many years, over 20 years I've been in the marketing space.

[00:01:44] I started out as a visual storyteller, like as a child. That's what I was doing in hindsight. I didn't realize it at the time, but eventually I got into visual storytelling professionally, graphic design, brand design. I got hired by Nike to work in their brand design department. So I got to work along like the best of the best in the industry there.

[00:02:10] And just learned, I learned, I learned and learned so much. Just being in, in an environment like that. And honed my skills. And then eventually went out on my own, started my own boutique firm, and really leaned into working with entrepreneurs, small business owners, individuals who I just had a heart for those people because I was that person too.

[00:02:39] And I had done years of work for larger companies like Nike, like Adidas. I worked, Jeff Bezos was a client of mine at one point. And, I just like, that was fun. And that was a wonderful chapter of building credibility and building my resume really, upleveling my skills and then I was able to go out and do my own thing and work for the type of people that I really wanted to work with.

[00:03:07] this was kind of back in the day when all you needed to succeed as a business was to have a website. It didn't matter really what it said. It didn't have to even be designed really well. if you had kind of like a kind of pretty website, you were legit and you would get clients, and it was like earlier in the earlier days of the internet.

[00:03:28] and that's kind of what I focused on, is like I leaned into the branding, the logo design, the visual story and the website. And I would make it look beautiful, but eventually You know, the landscape online just changed over time. It took a while, but like everybody started to have a website and things got more crowded and it was harder to stand out.

[00:03:56] Like a pretty website was not gonna do the heavy lifting anymore for a business. Like you needed to have a clear and compelling message you needed to really be clear about the problem that you solve, who you solve it for, and the transformation that you provide.

[00:04:12] So I was having these clients. There was one in particular her name was Elise and she was a writer, and so she was gonna write her website and give it to me, and then I was gonna Design it for her, and she called me one morning, like the day that her copy was supposed to be delivered to me, and she was. She was a wreck. Like she had been up all night.

[00:04:37] she had essentially been beating her head against the wall, trying to write the copy for her own website, which she knew through and through like, and she was a writer, so it was like, she was like, this is gonna be super easy. And what she found was the harder that she worked on the writing, the worse it got.

[00:04:56] She was not having a breakthrough. And I liken this phase 'cause what she was going through trying to write for her own business. I call this the bottle effect because we're so close to our own business that it's like we're trying to read the label of the bottle that can only be read from

[00:05:14] the outside and we're trying to read it from the inside. We're just so close to it. And so the harder we work, it doesn't get better. This is why her website copy was getting worse and worse and worse because it wasn't necessarily a writing problem, it was a perspective problem.

[00:05:31] That's why I do the work that I do. I can come in with fresh eyes, look at you, look at your brilliance, look at your business, and pull out the golden nuggets of your story and weave together the golden thread that is you. That is, you know, unlike all the other competitors, and I think so often in business

[00:05:53] we look to what our competitors are doing, and then we kind of emulate that, and then everything starts to look and feel the same. So, with Elise, she called me. She was devastated. I didn't feel really that equipped to help her. Like I gave her a template. I gave her the names of a couple of copywriters.

[00:06:14] I told her to interview some of her clients for ideas. She tried all of it. None of it worked. I mean, it was just a, it was a mess and I couldn't help her. And the reason that she couldn't write her own copy and she couldn't hire out somebody to write it for her is because you can't outsource your own voice when you are the business.

[00:06:38] You can't outsource your own voice. If you do, it'll come back to you. That writer will go work in a silo. It'll come back to you, and it might be really good copy, but it, doesn't feel fully aligned with your voice because you didn't create it. And so there's a disconnect. And then there's this back and forth of editing, revisions, refining.

[00:07:01] And then by the end, you're out like thousands of dollars and you've essentially rewritten it yourself anyway, so

[00:07:08] Kym_: I can relate to this so much.

[00:07:10] I mean, I have hired so many people to try to help me, and I swear every time it's like, no, that's not right.

[00:07:16] Kris: it's off, it's off because you, you can't outsource your, your own voice and so, essentially, you know, it was, a moment for me. It was a career defining moment because I just said, I'm never letting this happen again. I'm going to master the art of not only how to tell a, a really powerful visual story, but to marry that with a very compelling written narrative.

[00:07:41] so I, essentially went on a quest. I traveled across the country to workshops. I became one of the very first building a StoryBrand guides which they're now called, we're now called StoryBrand Coaches. But I got certified with Donald Miller. Before that book even came out, I was like, I was on board and I just lived and breathed story for a long time, and I started applying it to my own business.

[00:08:08] Of course, I was, figuring it out, applying it to my own business. I never took on a project and didn't apply what I learned. The power of story. I used to kind of start with design and then the words were kind of an, an afterthought.

[00:08:25] Now the story is everything. The story is the foundation. The story is the, the soil in the ground that everything grows from. And we, we begin with the story. So yeah, and, it was kind of mind blowing what happened. Like I had my own website. It was fine. I integrated story into it and I was having people calling me, going, I'm taking the train to Portland.

[00:08:55] More than one potential client said, I'm taking the train to Portland. I'm road tripping to Portland. I wanna come meet you. I wanna work with you. We want you to, build our website. We want you to tell our story. And so people started traveling to Portland to meet me because they wanted to work with me.

[00:09:12] My calendars started getting booked out with people. I was able to charge more for the work that I was doing and it totally shifted everything. but more importantly, I was getting calls from my clients, telling me things like Kris, you know, this one client I worked with, Mike, he was on the verge of burnout.

[00:09:32] He literally was like, I'm either gonna shut the doors of my business, or I'm gonna invest and work with you. And he chose to bet on him himself and work with me, and he called me. It was like one of the best moments. He said, I'm charging six times more for the exact same service.

[00:09:51] Like I was on the verge of burnout, I was about to close my doors, and now I'm charging six times more. And I'm working with people that are excited to pay that amount that are low maintenance. Right. That are, that are great clients. The clients that I, that he wanted to work with. And then I had another client who hired me to her name's Andrea.

[00:10:12] She hired me to do this work with her to craft her signature story and to integrate it in all the way, all the areas that she shows up online. And she, of course, wanted to get more clients, wanted to make more money, but what she shared afterwards. A few months later, she called and she said, what I didn't realize I was buying from you was confidence.

[00:10:36] I feel now that I have the words to communicate what I do, I show up with such a different energy in the world. And she is like, you can't put a price tag on that. But not only that. She quit selling. Like when you have a compelling story, you don't have to sell yourself like it does that work for you.

[00:10:57] So she would get on her sales calls prior to working together. She would get on for every 10 sales calls, she would get on, she'd get two clients. So she had a 20% close rate essentially. And after she started integrating her story into her calls and it, it was aligned with what was on her website and it was just all congruent. Her close rate went up to 95%. for every calls, Yeah, for every 10 calls she got on, she got nine and a half 

[00:11:28] Kym_: Oh my gosh. That's amazing. That's incredible.

[00:11:31] Kris: yeah. It's so powerful and what's, what I love about it more than anything is that it is working for you 24 7 on your website and anywhere you show up online in your social media.

[00:11:43] But like I really think of your website as the sun of your marketing universe, no matter what you do out in the world, like you point people back to the website, that's the sun, and then the planets can be like a marketing event or a podcast interview or email marketing, whatever it is, like pick a planet or two and just point everything back to your website and just know that it will.

[00:12:09] be your top sales employee, so you don't have to figure out how to fill your, client load, how to fill your calendar with paying clients.

[00:12:19] Kym_: It's amazing. So I'm thinking about therapists, right? with therapists. You know, in grad school, I mean, it's shifting, but we, learn no self-disclosure, don't talk about yourself at all. It's not appropriate if you're a therapist, that sort of thing. But over the years, you know, now therapists are becoming more savvy with social media.

[00:12:36] They are sharing their stories on social media and talking more about, you know, like I was here and now I'm here and that's how I learned to do this. And we're getting a lot more public about our stories. So I'm just curious, like what advice would you have for like maybe a therapist that's trying to just attract their ideal client to their therapy practice and then maybe even like an entrepreneurial therapist to use their story and maybe selling digital products that might relate to their niche or that sort of thing.

[00:13:03] Do you have advice Around your story selling model that could help a listening therapist, like learn how to use theirself more, even though we've kind of got this like taboo around it in our lives.

[00:13:15] Kris: Yeah, well there are two kinds of stories that we tell. One is like a business narrative. it's your brand story, those are the stories that I really love because those are the stories that will make you more money. the other type of story is called the founder's story, and that's really about you, your life, your background, how, how you struggled with that problem and how you overcame it.

[00:13:41] And, you know, it could be anything about your history. That's a different kind of story. It can be a, nice story to write or to have, but it's not the story that's gonna get you more clients. So I really focus on this brand narrative and. Think about the last time you went to a movie theater and the lights dimmed and the story began.

[00:14:06] The story always begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. When a story begins in this way, our brains cannot help but fully engage. So of course, we want to apply. that same story flow to our business because it captures our attention in the way nothing else can in this day.

[00:14:28] You sit there in that movie, you don't get up halfway through to get popcorn or look at your phone. Even. Nothing has the power to capture our attention in that way. So that's why we apply story to our business. And whether it's a book you've read, a movie you've gone to. It doesn't matter. Stories follow the same flow.

[00:14:49] They always follow the same flow. They always begin with a hero that has a problem they dunno how to solve. Then the guide comes into the story about a third of the way through and gives them a plan and the. Thing that's most important to know here is that your clients are the hero of your story. You are the guide in the story.

[00:15:12] You're the guide. You're the Yoda, you're the Mr. Miyagi, whichever. There's a guide in every story. A guide enters in about a third of the way through. Doesn't mean you know. you're the strongest as the guide. You're the strongest character in the story, but the hero is really the central character in the story, and this narrative allows your potential clients to imagine themselves working with you because.

[00:15:37] They can see how you're both really important characters. So the guide comes in a third of the way through, gives their hero a plan that calls them to action. We want our heroes to take action. That's how we know our marketing is working.

[00:15:53] People are taking that next step and then we pull them through the story and keep them fully engaged with stakes. And that just means success is possible. Failure is possible too, but we're gonna help you avoid failure. So our brains really like to know that you're gonna help me avoid failure. that feels really good for our brains.

[00:16:17] I'm sure you know that as a therapist. So that's really the flow of every story that's ever told. And. That's the type of story that's going to build your business.

[00:16:31] Kym_: Yeah, yeah. I totally agree with you. And a lot of times, you know, therapists are come to me for private coaching or something, but like, I can't get clients at all. And really one of the first things I wanna do is look at their directory profile listing. You know, how are you approaching, are you like saying, oh, I've got, you know, five master's degrees and I specialize in blah, blah, blah, and, and they're missing the transformation completely.

[00:16:55] So I can totally relate to what you're saying, instead of approaching it like. Who is this person I'm trying to help and how am I gonna help them transform into who they wanna be with my, unique method, whatever that is, that my therapeutic approach or my story selling method, like you've got, you know, that kind of

[00:17:10] Kris: Yeah, yeah. People don't actually wanna work with the best, they don't wanna work with the person that has the most credentials or is, Positioning themselves, as the best of the best. Not that that's a bad thing, but people don't work with the best. They work with the one they feel the most connected with.

[00:17:27] So does your messaging cultivate a connection? Is your message on your profile and all the different places that you show up online as a therapist, is it centered around the hero? with the words that you're using are they feeling seen? Are they feeling heard? Are they feeling not alone in their struggle?

[00:17:48] And are, are they feeling like you're the obvious choice to help them overcome that struggle and really experience success and avoid failure? So the transformation is really key, but. In addition to that, the beauty of the story is that it, cultivates a real connection between two people, just like when you'd sit down, if you were to meet somebody for a first 10 minute coffee date, you wouldn't sit down and launch into all the accolades and all the, degrees that you have. You just wouldn't do that. You would sit down and connect and you'd say, what's going on for you?

[00:18:26] And so often we, we get excited about what we do. We wanna talk about it, and we're like, of course it's my website, or, this is my profile. Of course I should talk about myself. But really, we wanna do it at the right time. First, we need to really create that connection and that's the power of story. And then there is a certain point in the story where it is important to build some authority and show that you know what you're doing, but you don't wanna jump the gun or do it too prematurely or you just, you total, it's off-putting, honestly.

[00:19:02] Kym_: Yes.

[00:19:02] Kris: Yeah. We're gonna click off your, click off the page and Keep looking for somebody

[00:19:07] Kym_: Totally. And, and you know, you said Mr. Miyagi, it's got it. It just like clicked in my head. Remember when like, Danielle's son first saw him like do like a, like a karate kick and it was like, oh, he is the expert. You know, like that kind of thing where he beat up the bad guys or something. It's so true.

[00:19:22] That's when you bring in the expertise. Like you don't have to prove that in the beginning. You have to build the rapport. Yeah.

[00:19:27] So, okay, let's, let's say like a therapist is listening right now and they're like, I have no idea how to even begin to do this to connect with a potential person visiting my website for the first time.

[00:19:38] is there any like trick or hack or something that you could give to, to say like, this is where we look, or this is where we find that capture point or something like that. I don't know what you call it, but.

[00:19:49] Kris: I think the biggest thing is to shift your mindset around your hero. Your clients really need to be the central character in your story. And when a therapist is the hero of their own story, this is a big mistake. the hero's actually the weakest character in the story because we don't know if they're gonna succeed or fail. We don't know, right? they have yet to figure that out.

[00:20:13] So when you're the hero of your own story, number one, you're the weakest character in this story. Number two, there's only room for one hero. In every story. And so when you are the hero, you kick your potential client out of the story. They can't even enter in, and so they'll come to your website or they'll come to your profile online and just keep strolling or keep there. There's like, you've kicked them out of this story. They can't imagine themselves engaging with you.

[00:20:42] the first thing I would do is start to shift the lens at which you look at your business. The lens which you talk about your business and start positioning yourself as the guide and really think about your clients as the hero of your story and the tangible thing that you can do. Is go to my website, red door stories.com.

[00:21:07] I have a freebie it's under the resources section it's called How to Write Compelling Copy in five Minutes Flat, it's a five minute video. I hold your hand through the process of really tangibly changing that lens and getting those ideas out of your head onto paper and organizing them in a way that flows with stories so you, you can get the basic foundation of your story dialed in just through that freebie on my website.

[00:21:39] Kym_: Oh, I'm gonna go do that later today. That's really cool.

[00:21:42] Kris: Yeah.

[00:21:43] Kym_: So then, what is the process like working with you? Let's say they, they get that initial, you know, basis down with the freebie. what is the process with you? Somebody that's like an expert in this? I'm just curious to hear about it. How it, how it all

[00:21:55] Kris: Yeah. I'm so glad you asked, because we touched earlier on that challenge of you can't outsource your own copy because it doesn't feel like you, so how do we overcome that? So the reality is your story is not invented or created. It is inside you, it's inside your head, it's inside your heart.

[00:22:15] So number one job for me is to pull that story out of you. And I know the questions to ask in order to, get that information. And basically this phase is called the Mining for Gold process. we mine for the gold inside your head and your heart and I pull it out, the golden nuggets, they're rough, they're a little dirty.

[00:22:37] I polish them up, I shine them up. I craft your narrative for you, but because it's come from you, it already feels in alignment with your voice. then I craft your narrative. I craft your signature story, and we initially tackle the website. So how's the story gonna live on your website? And then we collaborate.

[00:23:00] So we have a 90 minute collaboration call. And we go through every aspect of your story, and I help you understand the strategy and the thinking behind everything that I've written. I believe every word is guilty until proven innocent. So I really, we go through, I help you understand the strategy, but it's also a chance for us to refine and tweak together.

[00:23:23] So we just double ensure that it's. Super aligned with your voice. So that's how we overcome that problem. And then we have your signature story and you can apply that to your website. And we also, that's when me and my team get together and. basically create versions of your story that are gonna live in different areas of your business.

[00:23:48] So your therapist profile on Psychology Today, every touch point that you show up online needs to be congruent and consistent with the story that's on your website. So I craft your one-liner. I craft a video script for you. It's really important if you wanna stand out as a therapist to have a video introducing yourself on the page and stepping into the story as the guide, so I write your video script.

[00:24:19] The reason that you really only need one story for your entire business is because, number one, you wanna tell the same story everywhere so you have a consistent message. People need to read things eight times in order to commit it to memory. So the more consistent you can be, the more memorable you're gonna become.

[00:24:39] the other thing about story is that your signature story works a lot like an accordion. So there's shorter versions of it. Like when someone says, what do you do? How do you answer that question? That's gonna be a shorter version of your story. Longer version's gonna be. Your website middle version might be a video script that, I write for you.

[00:25:01] So it really does, like, it's consistent, but it can stretch and, and expand and condense.

[00:25:08] Kym_: Love that.

[00:25:08] Kris: Yeah. So after after we craft your signature story for your website, then we create. The various versions, the shorter versions and the video script for you. So you basically have everything you need. I deliver it in what I call as the brand copy Bible.

[00:25:24] So you have one document that has your story. The only story you're ever gonna need to tell for your business is there in the different versions of it. and then at that point, you just start getting more clients. So that's, that's the process. It's mine for gold.

[00:25:38] Kym_: Yeah.

[00:25:39] Kris: Mine for gold. Refine your story, design your website, and sign more clients.

[00:25:43] Kym_: I love that, and I would imagine when you have this version of your story, it helps, guide social media and that sort of thing. You could tell little parts of the story in different ways consistently over time.

[00:25:53] Kris: Yeah, in the brand copy Bible, I have templates and training for social media. So I have an approach to social media that I call the Freedom 15. It allows you to have the 15 posts every therapist needs in order to turn your Instagram grid into a really powerful sales page. I haven't posted on Instagram in almost two years because.

[00:26:16] Kym_: gosh.

[00:26:17] Kris: The page is there, it's working for me, just like my website is, and it's, you know, people are coming to me through that. But it gets you off the hamster wheel

[00:26:25] Kym_: Gosh. That is like true freedom. When you said that, I was like, oh my gosh.

[00:26:29] Kris: yeah. It's pretty great. And then there's also a short training there and a template that allows you to. Use story on your sales calls.

[00:26:39] So we're just making sure that there aren't any broken links from the time they find you online to the time that, you know, they become a client. We need to, to shore up that entire process, and that's what we do.

[00:26:52] Kym_: That's so smart. cause I mean, a lot of therapists, like I said, we're entrepreneurial. We have products and, and that sort of stuff. But definitely that initial consultation call, even with with a therapy client, is super important to kind of close the deal, you

[00:27:05] Kris: Totally. Yeah, it is. And you mentioned something about having like alternate revenue streams and how would that work. you need one story for your whole business and within that story, you're gonna present your suite of offerings, and it might include therapy. It might include one-on-one therapy or group therapy.

[00:27:25] It might include a course, but because it's all created by you, there's always like a golden thread that ties them all together. And then we work together to really tidy up your suite of offerings and you can have digital products within there. You can have group, you can have one-on-one, what whatever it is.

[00:27:46] I always work with my clients to kind of present their suite of offerings in a way that really feels good and allows the hero to make a, a choice.

[00:27:57] Kym_: Yes. Oh my gosh. So how do people find you, we kind of mentioned some places already, but how do people find you? How do they work with you if they want to, if they're

[00:28:04] Kris: Yeah, the number one thing you should do is go to my website, red door stories.com, and click on the blue button in the upper right hand corner. I offer a free moneymaking messaging call where we will get on a call, we'll look at the story that you're telling. We'll identify the areas that you need to shore up the holes in your boat, we'll, talk about your business, what you're struggling with, and I offer those calls for free.

[00:28:36] And if you're interested, then we talk about what it would look like to work together. So that would be number, number one. Book a call with me. I'd love to meet you. I'd love to talk with you. Um, Number two, check out the resources page. There are a couple different options in there, but the main one I would encourage you to go through if you're more of a DIY or you're just wanting to kind of delve deeper into this work.

[00:29:01] It's the compelling copy, how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. So sign up for that. Yeah,

[00:29:08] Kym_: Thank you so much for taking the time today.