Speaker 1 (00:00):

Most people talk about themselves in their social media profile, and I get why they do that. It's like, duh, it's my profile. I'm going to talk about myself. But really what will help you stand out is if you talk about your clients rather than yourself. 

Speaker 2 (00:16):

Alright guys. Growing your wellness business doesn't have to mean working around the clock and feeling exhausted. So welcome to the Healthy Hustle podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Feldman, and I have been in your shoes. I've been in the wellness space for over nine years, and I know what it feels like to feel overwhelmed. I took my wellness business from 13 K that first year and feeling frightened and exhausted to over six figures. Now I'm a business coach for health and wellness professionals just like you and I create done for you content and program to help you save time and money so you can spend more time nailing down your niche, understanding your buyer avatar, attracting your ideal client, and building your business from the ground up the right way. So sit down and let's get started. 

Speaker 3 (01:17):

Are you struggling with email marketing for your coaching business? Building an email list is crucial to connect with your clients and increase conversions, but it's not easy. That's where the cleaning hack list builder and marketing kit comes in. You'll get everything you need to build an email list of raving fans and potential clients, including a lead magnet, cover images, opt-in page thank you page and follow up emails. And the best part, it's completely free. And if that isn't enough, as also created video guides to walk you step-by-step through the setup process, download your free kit and make it happen. Hey guys, I'm so excited for this episode. I'm here with my new friend Kris, and she's going to talk about copy. She and I were just talking before we recorded this, about how many coaches struggle to share their story. They struggle to have copy that converts. They hear crickets, and then they're not doing their mission. So Kris, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell everyone a little about you? 

Speaker 1 (02:20):

Thank you for having me. I am a StoryBrand guide and I live in Portland, Oregon. I have a business called Red Door Designs. I've been doing this work for 20 years now, which is insane. But I love it so much because of the fact that the entrepreneurs and the coaches that I work with struggle so much with writing their copy and no one escapes this challenge. So what I love to do is really help bring simplicity and aha moments and breakthroughs around messaging so it doesn't feel so damn hard. 

Speaker 3 (03:03):

So you brought up a great word. I love that word simplicity. And especially here we are in a time where everyone is craving that I see on social media, people talking about just simplifying their strategies and getting back to maybe hopefully where we were a few years ago when things weren't as complicated. How do you simplify messaging? Is there a framework that we can talk about that kind of guides you through or when you're teaching your clients for that aha moment? 

Speaker 1 (03:33):

Yes. Yeah. Well, the reality is story is incredibly powerful. It's the best way to really connect with other people. And also when we use story in our own business, it's the best way to be remembered. And that's really the name of the game is how can we be remembered? How can we be top of mind when people that need us are thinking, okay, how am I going to solve this problem? We want ourselves to pop into their brain. And so that's why I am a big fan of this StoryBrand framework because it's not a new invention. I mean stories what brought us around the fireside from the beginning of time, but the beauty of the StoryBrand framework is that it shows business owners how to use story in their own business. And I think the thing that gets really overwhelming for people in the place that a lot of us get stuck is we think like, okay, this is my website or this is my business. 

Speaker 1 (04:43):

I've got to talk about myself. And the beauty of this StoryBrand framework is that it's a filtering device and it allows you to remove the clutter of your communication and only keep what's really powerful, what's really essential, what's really clear and what's really going to resonate with your ideal clients. And the beauty of that is that your story isn't even about you. It's about your customer or your clients. And what we do with the framework is we invite those ideal clients into a narrative or a story with us where they're the hero and we play the guide in that story. 

Speaker 3 (05:29):

Oh, I love that. Can you give an example of what that would be like in your own life and maybe that would be the easiest to kind of portray? 

Speaker 1 (05:39):

Yeah, so the StoryBrand framework, when I break it down, any movie you've ever been to, any book you've ever read, any story you've ever heard someone share, it always begins with a character or a hero that has a problem that they don't know how to overcome. And so I'll walk you through the framework really quickly and then I'll kind of show you how that might work in the real world. And so in every story, you've got a hero that has the problem. They don't know how to solve that problem. They meet a guide that's you or in a movie that might be Mr. Miyagi if we were talking Karate Kid, or that might mean Yoda for the Star Wars lovers. And then that guide gives the hero a plan, a very clear plan that calls them to action and ultimately allows them to experience success and avoid failure. And it's that simple. I know you're listening to this going, okay, really, 

Speaker 3 (06:44):

Kris, fill in the blanks for me please. 

Speaker 1 (06:48):

There's a million movies out there and you think, oh, why aren't all the movies sounding the same when they're all following this framework? But the reality is they're all following this framework, each and every one of 'em. And now this will ruin movies for you in the future because you're going to be like, oh, here comes the guide. Oh, there's the plan. And so really what this means in regards to your business is you really want to talk less about yourself. The guide really doesn't enter into this story until about in a movie like 20 to 30 minutes in. So we really want to lead with showing that we understand the problem that our heroes are facing, and that's the best way to really pull someone into your story is to talk about the problem that they're experiencing because they feel like we care about them when we do that. And the reality is 

Speaker 3 (07:51):

They can identify with those problems and those pain points. I just had somebody in one of my groups say, how important is it to dive into pain points in marketing? And I said, it is extremely important, but if you can involve a story with that and help this person to identify with a story and see through their own eyes, but then bring them through a story and lead them down to the water, you're going to be in a much better situation. Is that accurate? 

Speaker 1 (08:22):

Yeah, it is accurate in many ways, but everything that you share doesn't have to be in story form. Really, the components of the framework are more like playing multiple chords on a guitar when you know how to play the guitar and you strum those chords together, you're creating beautiful music. And if I were on the corner with the guitar case, people would gather around and start throwing money into the guitar case. And it's because I know what notes to combine. And when they're all played together, they draw people to the music. And contrasting that with, if I had never played the guitar before and I just picked up a guitar and started strumming wildly on a corner, no one's going to gather around me. So it's less about having to position everything like a story and more about putting all the ingredients into the chili, the soup bowl, right? You've got all the ingredients when all those ingredients are in there. In that those ingredients would be identifying the character or the hero articulating who you're talking to and really articulating the problems that they face and articulating them with detail. So we want them, when you're talking about the pain points, even if they're bulleted, even if it's a bulleted list, but if that list is articulated in a way that they're like, oh my God, she's in my brain, 

Speaker 3 (10:05):

She's in my brain, she's talking about me, 

Speaker 1 (10:08):

She is talking about me. Because the more clearly we can articulate their problem, a lot of magical things happen. They feel seen, they feel heard, they feel like they're not alone, but most importantly, they immediately think that we're the best ones to solve it. So pain points are very important, but you want to really dig deep into them and articulate the nuances of them in a way that feels like you're on a walk with your best friend and she's sharing with you those problems like conversational. 

Speaker 3 (10:42):

Would you say this framework is applicable, whether it's a social media post, a newsletter, a website? Is this framework applicable to all? 

Speaker 1 (10:51):

It's applicable to all. So I really encourage people to start with creating the shortest story ever told, which is what I call the one-liner. And I have a freebie that will walk you through this, so don't feel like you have to write this down. If you're listening, you can get it all from my freebie on my website, which I'll share with you with that later. But I have a five minute video, it's called How to Write Compelling Copy in five Minutes Flat. And it will walk you through the components of story and show you how to write your one-liner, which is again, the shortest story you'll ever tell. And once you know those components, the hero with the problem meets a guide. With this solution, you want to be the guide as the coach, and you want to position your service as the solution to their problem and then show them all the wonderful success that they're going to experience and the failure that you're going to help them avoid. 

Speaker 1 (11:53):

When you go through the one-liner process, you basically, you build a very strong foundation for all your brand messaging. And so you can take that one-liner worksheet that you can get for free from me and use that anytime you're ever writing anything for your business. If it's social media, if it's a podcast interview that you're going to do, if it's an email that you're writing to your people, you follow that same formula. You begin with a hero who has a problem, you position your service as the solution, and you really show them what's in it for them. What kind of success are they going to experience once they've solved this problem? Yes, really knowing, 

Speaker 3 (12:39):

I would say the prerequisite steps are knowing your ideal client, knowing their pain points. So then you can eloquently go through and key messaging, but also know what are the pitfalls and the failures that they want to avoid? So getting into the pain and pleasure, 

Speaker 1 (12:56):

Getting into the pain and pleasure, and people are more motivated to take action around avoiding failure than they are to experience success. So you want to build a healthy tension between reminding them that you can help them avoid failure and reminding them also what's in it for them from a success standpoint. 

Speaker 3 (13:16):

And what do you think stops? Because we're saying this, as you said, it's so simply, it's so simple, and yet it becomes one of the most difficult parts of building a healthy brand and a business. What do you think stops coaches from being able to take the simplicity and turn it into magic? 

Speaker 1 (13:40):

Yes. What an important question, and I'm so glad you asked it because I want to let everybody off the hook around feeling crappy or feeling frustrated because you're paralyzed or you're writing your copy or writing your email or rewriting your website keeps falling to the bottom of the to-do list, and you're tired of staring at a blank screen and comparing yourself to other people on social media who show up and they seem prolific to you. So first off, everybody struggles with this. Everybody does. And there's a reason why it's so hard, and it's called the bottle effect. And the bottle effect just means that when you own your own business, you are so close to it that you are living inside of the bottle trying to read the label. That can only be read from outside the bottle. It is literally impossible. It's like holding your face up, holding your hand up to your face and trying to describe what your hand looks like to somebody else. 

Speaker 1 (14:44):

So that's why it's so hard. And then the other thing, if that's not hard enough, the other thing that's going on is called the curse of knowledge, which just means when we've been in our industry for several years or more, we really forget what it's like to not know what we know. And so we end up using language and getting into details that are over our potential client's heads or just feel like, yeah, just over their heads or they're just not really able to connect with it. And so between those two things, it becomes really hard to write your own copy. It can feel impossible. 

Speaker 3 (15:28):

So would you say that with this simple method that a coach will be more inclined to sit down and write copy or there are strategies that coach can use? One of the strategies that I always said to a coach is, take a phone record yourself. Don't even do it on Zoom so you're not looking, but just record yourself or do it on Zoom on audio only and record some of those stories that are really relevant. What would you say for a coach that does want to write their copy? 

Speaker 1 (16:01):

If you're a coach and you want to write your own copy, then I would definitely read the book Building a StoryBrand, I would definitely download the freebie that I have@reddoordesigns.com to get you started. And then I think it's really important just like coaches, just like people need coaches, oftentimes it's not rocket science what you're delivering for your clients, but they need you as a coach because you can show up with fresh eyes and perspective that they can't have an accountability. And that's what I do the same thing for my clients that coaches do for their clients. So it's really important to have an expert there that can, 

Speaker 3 (16:56):

I think just like you said, another eye on it 

Speaker 1 (17:00):

Because 

Speaker 3 (17:00):

We are so close to our own brand and sometimes we get, as you said, lost in some of those original stories of what is it like to not know this information? And we take for granted some of those pain problems because we forget what it was like going through that process. 

Speaker 1 (17:18):

Exactly. 

Speaker 3 (17:19):

What would you say is an exercise for somebody if they want to pull out some of these stories? Is there an exercise other than the one that we talked about to kind of map out their stories? 

Speaker 1 (17:33):

Well, you really have one main brand story, and that story doesn't change. I mean, you can reword it in multiple ways, but really once you create your brand story, you can stick with it for years and years to come, so you don't have to drum up a bunch of different stories. There's also your origin story, which is kind of a different type of story that's more like the history of you and how you're now doing the work that you're doing. Nobody really cares that much about the origin story. The origin story, I hate to say it, 

Speaker 3 (18:17):

We're not told this, 

Speaker 1 (18:18):

I hate to say it, but I mean if you are drawn and really want to create your origin story, go for it. But don't put it on your homepage, put it on your about page, and that's fine. If you're really looking to convert and you're really looking to attract more clients, you create one story and you use the StoryBrand framework and you can follow it through that book if you like, or you can hire somebody like me to do it for you 

Speaker 3 (18:49):

To help flush it out. What would you say is an example? Can you give an example that may be taking this framework into a coach that is, let's just say a weight loss coach and their clients are ages menopause, so we're talking like 55 plus. They try everything to lose weight. It definitely is hormonal. They know that they're going through menopause, so they are very keen to that word and understand it. Yeah, some of the pitfalls that they've had is they've tried every different diet out there that has just become extremely frustrating, especially at a time in life where you're supposed to be really enjoying yourself getting back to who you are. 

Speaker 1 (19:35):

So we would start with identifying the hero or the character and saying, many women over 50 or many women in menopause or mini perimenopausal women. So just in that few words, we're identifying who we're talking to and then we want to identify the problem that they're having. Many menopausal women are frustrated by weight gain and an inability to lose the weight. So now we've identified the problem and then now we want to step in as the guide and position our service as the solution. So it might be something like my three month program helps them shed the weight for good. So notice I didn't get into all the details or the features of my program. I just said, what does the program do? My three month program helps them shed the weight or reach their goal weight, and then we want to remind them the success that they're going to feel so they can keep up with their grandchildren so they can enjoy travel so they can feel their best, feel confident. 

Speaker 1 (21:02):

So that's would be a one-liner, and that is really the beginning, the foundation of you getting clear about your story and what it's about. So if we put that all together, many menopausal women are frustrated by weight gain and an inability to lose the weight. My three month program helps them shed the pounds for good so they can feel energized, confident, and live their best life. So this is on the fly, but that's actually a full story. You were talking to a menopausal woman, she would be totally pulled into that because our brains, when you begin your story with a problem, our brains can't help but engage. So that's how we pull people in. And if we were to take that one-liner and kind of bring it over to the website environment, this might be that one-liner would work well in your social media profiles, in your email, signature in conversation. 

Speaker 1 (22:14):

So that's something that you'd want to memorize over and over again. And then if we brought that over to a website environment, you'd want to add some layers and texture to it, some other ingredients to it, which would involve giving them a plan. So calling them to action with a plan, here's how it works, step one, step two, step three, and reminding them that you're going to help them avoid failure. So we want to again, build that healthy tension. But there is a section, what I call the guide section on your page where you kind of talk a little bit, you go a little bit more in depth about your story, but it's more as it relates to them. And then layered on the page, you want to be building trust and authority the whole way through with testimonials and other kind of, maybe you're a life coach, school coach or you've got other accreditations or you've 

Speaker 3 (23:17):

Worked with or you've been featured in different magazines, something 

Speaker 1 (23:19):

Like that. Yes. Or you've worked with a hundred clients or even 50 clients. So layering in that trust and authority is really an empathy, is really how you show up as the guide with really what you want to lead with, empathy with everything that you do, just understanding their frustration to this problem. 

Speaker 3 (23:43):

I love that you brought up the social media profiles because that one liner, as you said, really becomes that main building block for somebody to come in and know, I help menopausal women lose weight for good. 

Speaker 1 (23:57):

Most people talk about themselves in their social media profile, and I get why they do that. It's like, duh, it's my profile. I'm going to talk about myself. But really what will help you stand out is if you talk about your clients rather than yourself. 

Speaker 3 (24:13):

What do you think is the biggest mistake that coaches make in their messaging 

Speaker 1 (24:19):

Talking about themselves too much? And again, this is 99.9% of the internet. If anybody is self-employed, they have a website and they automatically think It's my website. I need to talk about myself. And so that's where the story begins with them talking about themselves. And it's so understandable. I realize why this happens. And I think once you understand the framework and you kind of flip that on its head, then essentially, let me tell you what happens when we talk about ourselves too much. We become the hero of our own story, and there is only room for one hero in every story. And so we kick any potential client out of our story when we are the hero of it. And that happens a lot when you're on the internet. You're looking for someone who can solve your problem and you go to their website and you're like, oh, she seems cool. She seems nice, but I'm not feeling a connection. And so you leave that site and you keep looking until you feel a connection. And we don't know this because it's not conscious. We are not aware of it, but that's what happens. So someone will keep looking until they feel a connection with somebody, and if we want to create a connection, we talk about them, not about us. 

Speaker 3 (25:49):

I love that. Is there anything that I'm missing when we think about the world of storytelling and copywriting and messaging that I haven't asked you? 

Speaker 1 (25:58):

Oh my gosh. I mean, your questions have been so wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, very, very poignant and I think really helpful for, I can tell you're really in touch with your audience. Well, 

Speaker 3 (26:12):

I made that mistake. I made that mistake in the beginning talking about my story. My story was coming out of gut issues, leaky gut, asthma, life support, twice gastritis, all these different things that had happened. And I made the mistake of just leading with that story and it got me some clients, but it didn't get me. It made me 12,000 for that year. I also had undercharged drastically because I had a whole bunch of self-confident issues. But once I started realizing that it was my story that became what I could stand on, but so much of appealing to somebody was really talking about their pain, what they wanted to have happen in their life, and really touch on some of the strategies that they have tried before that they didn't want to fail again. And so once I made that shift, it really shifted my entire business. And I started, of course, attracting clients much more greater at a greater pace, thank goodness. But it also, it gave me an understanding for marketing. I think that's the big difference that I see is when you're just speaking about yourself, you can have a business and you can probably get some clients, but you're not going to reach the capacity of people that you need to make money and also to change lives. 

Speaker 1 (27:42):

Exactly. I mean if all coaches are in business because they love the work and they love helping people, and so if you can position yourself, you as the go-to person that can solve this problem for other people, then you get to reach more people and they get to solve their problems. So it's really limiting when we aren't telling the right story. It really puts constraints on our ability to make a huge difference in the world. 

Speaker 3 (28:16):

And when we're not speaking to our ideal client, I can't tell you how many coaches, I will say, can you name 10 pain points? And they're like, this is where I struggle. And yet they have spent so much money learning how to build a course, learning all these different courses that are taking them to this next level of marketing or understanding marketing or email marketing, yet they're having a difficult time because they haven't taken that time to do the market research and to really step into the shoes to feel it, to see it, to hear it from what their client is struggling with. 

Speaker 1 (28:53):

And honestly, you don't even have to do market research can feel like kind of a daunting, boring, dry thing science class, but really with the Google Doc that I have available for free, you'll have the opportunity to really dig deep and just to brain dump without analyzing how you're writing it down, just brain dump all the things that you hear when you're on the phone with your clients, what are they telling you in their words? Meet them where they are and really, and then keep that Google doc and anytime you ever need to write a post or write anything for your business, you go back to that what I call kind of the copy bible of your brand, and you always begin with the problem and things just start to flow once you begin with their problem because your heart opens up, you begin to be reminded of the empathy that you already have for your clients, and you are also reminded that you've got the solution you can help them get to where they want to go. All they care about, they don't really care about you. Again, I hate to say it, it sounds negative, but it's like all they want to know is that you can solve their problem. 

Speaker 3 (30:13):

You're 

Speaker 1 (30:14):

Going to be the best one to solve it, and they're not going to hire the best one to solve their problem. They're going to hire the one that can connect with them the most. So if you are really good at solving this problem, 

Speaker 3 (30:29):

Get really good at writing your copy or hire somebody. I think that's really what it boils down to because I know my first copywriter was Hillary Weiss and she drastically, she was better for me than almost any other coach I hired. She helped me to see clearly the mistakes I was making. It was when I put my big girl panties on and got my first real website, I hired her and it was such a difference. It was such a difference. And she really imprinted my life. 

Speaker 1 (31:04):

Yes, and changed the way that you do business forever changed the way you talk about your business. I really believe that your website should act as your top sales employee. It should be selling for you 24 7 and doing a damn good job at it. And that way you can focus on doing the work that you love. And what happens with social media and marketing in general is just like everyone's got a different solution and we end up going down rabbit holes or taking this course or that course and getting distracted. And the reality is, if you just put on the blinders and focus on telling your story, you do it once and then you can copy and paste it to every other area of your communication and marketing. It will change your business completely. The other point that I want to make is that as coaches, we feel like we have to do all the things. 

Speaker 1 (32:06):

We have to be on social media, we have to be everywhere. But the reality is I like to think of your website as the center of, if you envision a bike tire and all the different spokes are coming out of it, that center hub of your bike wheel is your website. So if you don't have that totally dialed in, the outer spokes of that bike are like social media, networking events, all the other things that keep us busy, but everything really does ultimately point back to that website. And if your website isn't converting, it's not the end of the world. It just means you're going to have to be working a lot, a lot, a lot more and selling a lot harder. And who wants to do that? 

Speaker 3 (32:56):

That's such a great point. I love it. I have loved this episode because I feel like this is one of the top big pain points when I think I always think about pricing as a big pain point messaging and the copywriting as the other because they're just, you can't have a successful business without being keyed into those pain points being keyed into how to turn those pain points into a profitable message. So can you tell everyone where to find your gift? 

Speaker 1 (33:30):

Yeah, my gift, you can find it@reddoordesigns.com. That's R-E-D-D-O-O-R-D-E-S-I-G-N-S, plural red door designs.com. You can find my freebie there, which is how to write compelling copy in five minutes and it'll walk you through the things that we talked about today. And then also, I love working with coaches and entrepreneurs helping them. I have a done for you copy service, so I write your copy and the offer is called StoryBrand copy that sells in 2.5 hours flat. 

Speaker 3 (34:11):

And so 

Speaker 1 (34:12):

The beauty of that is you guys are busy and who wants to spend a bunch of time on this after they've been procrastinating on it for over a year. So I do all the heavy lifting and it only takes you as my client two and a half hours total to have completely new website copy that is going to act as your top sales employee. Also with that copy, you have your brand copy Bible, so you never have to reinvent the wheel to when it comes to messaging or copy. 

Speaker 3 (34:50):

Well, thank you so much, Kris. I really appreciate you being here. And guys, make sure to follow this woman. Make sure to download the freebie as you saw today in this episode, it's so important to have a compelling message because if not, you are going to work harder and it's going to feel stressful, and then you're going to end up quitting on the dream that you have. So don't make that mistake and hire somebody like Kris. All right guys, I'll see you on the next episode. Take it easy. 

Speaker 2 (35:20):

All right guys, that is all for today. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe to the show so you don't miss any future episodes while you're there. It would mean the world to me if you take just a few seconds and me an honest review. Truth is I love honesty. Your review has helped me to reach even more health coaches and wellness professionals who are ready to explode their business and want the truth in this non BSS approach. You can find all the links and the information mentioned in this episode at ww dot rachel a feldman.com/podcast. Alright, so don't forget to tag me on Instagram at Rachel a Feldman and let me know what was your favorite part of the episode. This will help me to create even better content for you. Bring on awesome peeps to tell you the truth about how they built their business, plus other speakers to help you take your business to the top without overwhelm. Thanks for listening and I'll see you guys soon.