CTC Ep. 57 | Declutter Your Marketing and Get More Clients with Shira Gill

Kris: [00:00:00] Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story.

Welcome to the podcast, Shira Gill. I am so delighted to have you here. I have been a big fan of yours for actually many, many years.

Um, for those of you listening who might not know Shera, she is a world renowned organizing expert and she is the bestselling author of a book called Minimalist and also more books, another book called Lifestyle and Organized Living, and. She is a really beautiful example of somebody who has intentionally kept their business small but mighty.

She's able been able to reach people all over the world. And also really prioritize her girls, her family, her home life, her [00:01:00] community. Um, I just got your email today about building a village around you and your community. So all that to say, I am so happy you're here and I cannot wait to get into it with you.

Shira: Oh, thanks for the warm welcome. I'm happy to be here.

Kris: So for people that aren't familiar with you, give us a snapshot about who you are and the work that you love.

Shira: Sure. Um, so I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area. Um, I am the mom of two girls and live in a tiny bungalow that's about a thousand square feet for the four of us.

My husband, my two teenage daughters, and our dog. Um, and I'm somewhat obsessed with small space living and minimalism and organization. Um, and my career has spanned, I guess now at the past. 16 years, um, and started when I got laid off when I was nine months pregnant, um, with my now 16-year-old daughter.

So that's how I track time. Um, and I, um, lost my job while I was eight months pregnant. I was a corporate event planner. [00:02:00] And they had a sweep of layoffs and I had no idea what to do next. Um, but I knew that I was good at helping people declutter and get organized. I had always done it for free and for fun for my girlfriends.

Um, so I built a tiny little website and I launched a local home organizing business. Um, and that now, you know, 16 years later has led me to, um, three published books and five courses and. Um, and now I spend most of my time actually, um, mentoring other small business owners, um, and helping people run kind of their own version of a small minimalist business.

Kris: Hmm. How did you end up making that transition? Because you've spent a lot of years really in the organizational life editing phase, and now you are. You're working in mentoring entrepreneurs, how did that transition happen?

Shira: Yeah, it was, I guess like most of my career, um, by accident. Um, so I've always, I work very hard, so that's not an [00:03:00] accident.

But, um, you know, I started my organizing business because I lost my job and was pregnant and had to pay the bills. And then I did love organizing for many, many, many years. And a few things started happening. Um. One was the pandemic. So I literally, overnight could not go into people's homes and could not see clients.

So there was kind of a major, um, halt in my business that I had to figure out, um, as, uh, the primary breadwinner in our family. Um, the other thing was, you know, as I got into my forties, I started noticing. Just the physical burden of the work that I was doing, which I love having a physical job. But, you know, schlepping bags and bins and unearthing closets was starting to take a physical toll.

And I think I just started thinking about, um, what the future held for me as an entrepreneur if I could no longer, you know, maybe in my sixties or seventies. I just didn't see myself being able to do the same kind of physical work. Um. So I would say I was open and then the pandemic happened and I [00:04:00] had to think really quickly.

And um, I had gotten a lot of those, you know, kind of pings for many years from other women, um, specifically home organizers or people in the lifestyle space asking if they could pick my brain. Um, take me to coffee. And so it just occurred to me maybe I can launch a little mini mentorship program. Um, so that was as simple as creating a Calendly link and sending an email saying, I am now opening spots.

For mentorship. Um, one-on-one. I did an eight week one-on-one. Um, it sold out instantly from one email. Wow. And I kind of then realized that I was onto something and I really enjoyed it. And so, um, for the first few years I really kept it as like, I'm only gonna take a handful of people each season. And then I just kept.

Taking more people. And then it sort of grew from mentoring home organizers and designers to physicians and gynecologists who wanted to start a program or scale something or build something. [00:05:00] Um, and the feedback I got was just, you know, I like how you run your business. It's small and it feels doable. Um, can you help me do the same thing?

So that's kind of how it happened.

Kris: Wow. That's the, I love how organic that unfolded, you know, and you just, you were really answering the questions that people were asking you, which is like, how are you doing this? Can you help me do this? Can I pick your brain? Um, so after. Spending that amount of time organizing and shifting into mentorship, what are some of the core fundamental pillars or beliefs or strategies that are, are similar between the two types of work?

Shira: Hmm. Um, yeah, I love that question because I think I do use a similar framework. Um, so I start with helping people clarify, um, which is always what I did with home organizing. Like before we start moving piles around, let's get really clear on what you want and why you want it. Um, so I start with [00:06:00] that lens with, um.

Business strategy is like, why do you want a business in the first place? And um, what are your specific goals around that? What might success look like? You know, I mentor people who have a full-time corporate job and just have the idea of having a creative expression. On the weekends. So I literally have one client who sees one home organizing client a month for fun, um, and has a full-time corporate job.

So like there's everything from that to people who have been in business for 10 years and are ready to scale in some way or change something or they're burnt out. Um, so I start with that clarity piece and then, um. I would say that editing is certainly the most important piece in my home organizing work.

It's like 90%, um, is just removing of clutter. And I think with the coaching it's the same, but it's mental clutter. Um, and so as I'm sure you see a lot of imposter syndrome, um, a lot of false starts and questioning and self-doubting. Um, [00:07:00] and so I am, um, a certified life coach. Um, and so I do have some of those skills I can call on to help people with the mental.

Um, and then organizing is step three. So I think with business it's like operations and systems and, um, you know, I am not a particularly tech savvy person, so when I am mentoring someone, I share the most ludicrously simple systems that I use that have worked for me, that don't require me. Um, having a deep knowledge of tech.

Um, so it's like organizing the inner workings of your business. Um, and, and just like you would organize your things in a home. And then the last piece is elevate. Um, so in a business that's looking at like the aesthetics of, um, your brand and what's forward facing, um, how you want people to feel when they land on your website, what assets you wanna create and invest in.

Um, I'm very big into photography and I've worked with the same photographer as a kind of creative collaborator for nearly my whole career. [00:08:00] Um, so yeah, it's really thinking about like, now that you have a base and a framework for what you wanna do, how can you optimize, you know, um, the beauty, the aesthetics, the brand so that it really resonates with the right people.

Kris: I love it. I love it so much. One of the metaphors I use a lot is that the entrepreneur's brain is like an American garage. It's full of cardboard boxes that are all full of stuff. And as entrepreneurs, we're idea people. We have ideas all the time. We're constantly thinking about our work, our clients, how we solve our problem.

But when you walk into the garage. It's hard to really decipher the trash or the clutter from the treasure. Yeah, and so it just all looks overwhelming, which is why it's so hard to do this for yourself, which is why you need. Outside help and support to like clear the clutter literally from your brain and identify, I call them like the golden nuggets or the golden thread of your story.

Mm-hmm. [00:09:00] And to really nail that clarity. It's often, um, it's often not a, uh, a writing problem, it's a perspective problem. Mm-hmm. When somebody can come in with fresh eyes and really help you, it's kind of like, like. Again, like back to the organizing, it's so often you just need a buddy to kind of hold your hand with you.

Totally, totally. Because it can be painful to do it all by yourself, so Yes.

Shira: Yeah. I mean, I find most people know what to do, but they have a hard time doing it and having that structure and accountability is like half the battle.

Kris: Let's talk a little bit about marketing. So one of the things that, um, I've been in your world a while now.

One of the things that I think you do so well is your newsletter. You can tell it's written by you. You can tell the information that you're talking about is top of mind and relevant to you and different from. What other people are talking about because it is from your heart. Tell. Tell us how [00:10:00] that newsletter has worked for you, how it came about.

What's your kind of thinking behind it?

Shira: Yeah. Um, I would say, so my newsletter I started, um, when I launched my business 16 years ago, it was kind of my one marketing tool. It was, I guess pre-social media. So, um, it was the one thing I really did religiously and when I started my business, I had a newborn baby, so I really only had the capacity to do that newsletter monthly.

Um, but what I found is, you know, originally it was my mom and a handful of friends, and then it's very slowly and organically would grow, and what I would find is every time I would send it. I would get at least one new client inquiry. Um, and I thought, well, that's wild because I don't even feel like I'm marketing.

Um, I am just genuinely sharing things that I think might be helpful or valuable. And I think as someone who's like a little bit allergic to sales and marketing, um, I found it was always a very natural, organic way for [00:11:00] me. Um. To put myself out there, let people know what I was doing, connect in some way, and if they wanted the help, they knew where to find me.

So it was like the least aggressive form of marketing I could think of. Um, and I have continued that newsletter, which, you know, um, once my kids were a little older. Turned into a weekly missive. Um, and I think about a year and a half ago, um, I moved over to Substack. Um, and I just love it. Like it's, it's, it's funny because people ask me like, how do you come up with content?

How do you find things to write about every week? And it's almost like my therapy, like I feel like my newsletter is, um. Something I look forward to. I, I mean, it goes out every Tuesday at 5:00 AM I am often writing it Monday night, so I'm not gonna lie about that. Like I don't have a beautiful three month content calendar.

Um, but I think the reason it resonates with people is because it literally is like, here's what's on my mind. Here's what I'm [00:12:00] working on, here's what I'm thinking about. Here's what's inspiring me. And so it is. Fresh and, um, and real. And then at the bottom of each newsletter, I just have links for how to work with me.

And, um, and I, I really do find every time I send that newsletter out, I book business. So, um, it feels really different to me than the like traditional email marketing funnel and the 9 billion sales emails, um, yeah, that I used to do because I thought I had to.

Kris: Yep. Yeah, a hundred percent. I think people are these days just over it and repelled by the emails that they can either sense or created by AI or just part of that whole.

Predictable funnel where you're, you know, that can be real pushy. Um, and it's so refreshing just to get, you can tell like within five seconds you can tell if an email is truly written by that person or not. Mm-hmm. And you have just been so beautifully studied with that. So

Shira: thank [00:13:00] you. Well

Kris: done. I mean, it's such a, it's such a, a simple, but a beautiful reminder at how, how to.

To look at an email newsletter or a weekly newsletter or just a weekly letter, um, is probably a better way to put it mm-hmm. To the people that resonate with you. So thank you for delving into that.

Shira: Yeah, I mean, and I will say like I just got off the phone with someone who was saying they hate writing newsletters, but they love creating video content and I am terrible with video content.

Yeah. And it's horrifying for me. And so I think it really is all about finding the one thing that you really authentically enjoy doing, or it's not gonna be sustainable.

Kris: A hundred percent. Speaking of. Posting on Instagram, which is why I reached out to you. Yes. So you wrote a wonderful, uh, letter about quitting Instagram and what that looked like.

And I'm a huge fan of quitting Instagram. I mean, I have a presence. I have a presence, but I have strategically taken the. [00:14:00] Year off of Instagram. It's still very much works for me's. I kind of turned it into a really powerful sales page that didn't require me to post all the time. Um, so when I got that letter from you, I was like, Ooh, we need to talk about this.

So, to tell me about, about your path to, to quote unquote quitting Instagram.

Shira: Yes. Um, so Instagram has been very good to me overall. Um, it, you know, I, I think I was there at the right time where growth was possible and. Much easier than it is now. Um, and so for many, many years I enjoyed it. And, um, similar to my newsletter, I felt like I was kind of curating my own magazine and sharing things that I loved and connecting with people, um, until I stopped enjoying it.

And I think that has been in the past few years as the climate of Instagram has changed. Um. Pretty profoundly. I started feeling like all that I'm seeing is, um, products and ads [00:15:00] and, um, terrible news. And it was not a place that felt pleasant or creative to me anymore. Um, I felt like I was just wanting to get out of there and, um, I also, I had hit 110,000 followers and.

Was just kind of stuck there and I found whether I, um, you know, spent hours creating a reel or didn't, nothing happened. So I was like, what am I doing with my time? If this is not actually having like a cause and an effect, um, I am just, you know, like. Toiling away trying to figure out the algorithm and put the right video and it's not feeling good or authentic.

And so I was, um, I was out of the country traveling with my brother and I had plenty of time. We were lying in Greece and I was just sort of daydreaming and I had this weird, um, vision of like just turning my Instagram into. Kind of like a digital business card or [00:16:00] the homepage of a website. And you know, I'm such an editor and I like getting rid of clutter.

And so what I started with was going all the way back into the archives where I realized there were pictures of my children and. I don't share pictures of my children anymore. And so that was really easy. I was just like, delete, delete, delete. But then I was like, well, what's this? And this isn't relevant, and I wouldn't post this anymore.

And so I just kept deleting and archiving until there was almost nothing left. Um, and then what I did is I kind of. Reposted, I think it was 12, um, specific posts that essentially said, here's who I am and what I do, here's what I care about and what I offer. And, um, showcased my three books. And I just thought, now if someone lands on my.

Instagram, they can very easily figure out what's going on here, how they can work with me, how they can buy my books or join my substack without me constantly trying to create content. Um, and so I basically just wiped everything out, started fresh [00:17:00] and um, what was really fascinating is nothing happened.

Like I stopped posting completely. I stayed at 110,000 followers. Like I didn't lose followers, I didn't gain, but that's pretty much where I was at anyway. Right. Um, and I felt like it just really helped me kind of reclaim my mental health around social media. I felt like now it's optional for me. Um, I do still enjoy Instagram stories.

Um, I travel a lot and I do really enjoy like sharing travel or packing content. Um, but again, it's now like I do it on my own terms. Right. Um, and I don't feel any need to be kind of a slave to the algorithm.

Kris: Oh my gosh. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Freedom. You know when, when somebody owns their own business, pretty much everybody I talk to feels this sense that they have to be on Instagram and they, not only that, they have to be posting all the time and it's so time consuming.

It takes so much energy and it very [00:18:00] rarely, um, actually gets. You results. And I think it's this belief that everybody has really adopted that we need to question, uh, we really need to question is this where I should be spending my energy? Um, when I came up with my approach, which I call the Freedom 15, so my, my whole thing is like, how do we use story to do the heavy lifting for you and to get you clients?

And so I broke, I broke it down to 15 posts. That you need. And pretty much all of those posts relate back to a part of your story. Mm-hmm. And it's anything from like the problem that you solve, the benefit that you create, why this matters to you so much, what do you want people to do? What's your main call to action?

So much of that is. Not present in a lot of people's posts. And so what I ended up doing was I tried it on myself first, and now I do it for all my clients. But, um, I, I mapped out the 15 posts that I knew I needed [00:19:00] and then I uploaded those and I left the thousands of other posts that I had there previously.

And I was like, oh, I'm not gonna delete everything. I mean, there, there's gotta be, you know, there's gotta be some good stuff in here. And it's. You know, years of posting. And then I did a little bit of an audit where I looked at the 15 posts and I knew what was on those. And then I scrolled down all my other posts and there was nothing from the past that wasn't currently addressed in the 15.

Yeah. And so I deleted all of 'em and it was so freeing and so wonderful, and I've never, ever looked back.

Shira: I love that. Yeah. I mean, what I have found, um, you know, it's so business dependent with Instagram because I, for most of my career was a small local business. And I live in the San Francisco Bay area.

So the people that I needed to find me were people who lived, you know, 15 minutes from my house. And the people that found me on Instagram lived in Australia often. [00:20:00] Right. And so. For me, it ended up being a way of growing my brand and exposure. And ultimately when I had books, it was helpful, um, and it was helpful for connecting with other entrepreneurs or editors, but I really wasn't booking direct business from Instagram.

And so that's what I tell founders often. Like, really look at what you're. Businesses and does this even make sense or would a different type of platform or networking or marketing make a lot more sense?

Kris: Right? Right. I mean, you have to do something to let people learn about you and find out about you, but does it have to be social media?

Not if you don't want it to be. There are all kinds of other ways like that. Podcast guesting is a really fun one that I've done for my own business where I just show up. I get to talk about what I love and get to introduce to other people's audiences and there's just all kinds of, um, other options if you're not feeling the social media path.

Shira: Yeah, a hundred percent. I always say just pick one thing, but does it have to be Instagram? Absolutely not. [00:21:00]

Kris: Right, right. So true. So let's get back into the mentorship work that you've done. Tell us a story about a client that you worked with and what happened for her. What were they struggling with and kind of where did they end up after the eight weeks?

Hmm.

Shira: Okay. Um, well there's, they fall into such different categories, but I'll give you one. Um, 'cause I told you about the corporate client who just was like, I kind of wanna be an organizer, but I actually love my corporate job. So she, and she really like, created a website and a brand and the whole thing.

And just for years now, sees one client a month and it's thrilling for her. So that was one story that I just kind of loved because it was so on her own terms, right. And exactly the way she wanted to run her business. Um, but another one is, um, I worked with an organizer who was mainly working for other people.

Um, as a contractor and really wanted to have her own business. And, um, and what we found kind of through like the inquiry [00:22:00] coaching process was she actually didn't enjoy organizing. And so she thought she did, but. When I asked like, what are the parts of the business that you love? It all ended up being styling.

And she hated decluttering. She hated like being on her hands and knees, going through people's dusty boxes. And what she loved was actually the kind of cherry on top elevate phase where it's like bringing in plants or art or bins or baskets. And so for her, um, you know, in that eight week period, we, we used her existing website.

We changed her services and her offerings to reflect what she actually enjoyed doing, um, which was styling. And so she created a cool niche for herself because, um, typically when people want help in their homes, that's not organizing. It's like full service design, which can be very cost prohibitive. And so we put together a program for her that was basically like.

Do you want someone to come in and use what you already have and just ju and then maybe bring [00:23:00] in a few elevated essentials? And so, um, so she's in LA and she's been doing it now for years and basically was able to like. Edit the parts of the business she didn't enjoy.

Kris: Right. And

Shira: really lean into what she loved and create a whole different type of business.

Right. She,

Kris: she

Shira: judged

Kris: up her

Shira: own business. Exactly. Yeah. It's just so funny sometimes how, like, just asking questions, well uncover, you know, like, I was like, well, what do you love about organizing? And she just kind of froze and was like, I don't, I don't love it.

Kris: I mean that that is the power of having somebody come in and hold your hand and a thought partner with a fresh perspective and a few questions.

Yes. Like it's just, it's quite profound what can happen. Yes. The clarity. Yeah.

Shira: Absolutely.

Kris: Alright, so I'm gonna wrap up with three lightning round questions.

So what is one thing you wish everyone would edit from their business today?

Shira: Imposter Central. Uh. [00:24:00] Yes. That is so good. I just think it, there's no, um, upside to imposter syndrome and I've worked with some wildly brilliant and talented people and everybody has it, but it doesn't seem to be serving anyone.

Kris: No, uh, really everybody has it. It doesn't matter at what level and it's just not useful at all.

Um, tell us the habit or boundary that protects your creativity.

Shira: Hmm. I take myself on a, um, solo retreat every quarter. It used to be every year. And then I enjoyed it so much. I was like, I'm gonna just keep leaving. So, um, so my, my kids, my family know once a quarter, um, I book myself. It's just one night, but it's two full days.

At my, um, favorite resort and spa, um, that has a beautiful mineral pool and delicious food. And I get a private room and I just come with my [00:25:00] computer and some books and I'm just completely alone. And, um, I just like to do that every season to kind of think about my business, do a little audit of like what's working, what's not, what's energizing me, what's not.

Um, and I just find something about being away from my familiar environment and daily routines, um, is. Just invaluable, um, you know, for the cost of like one night at a hotel, right?

Kris: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I am so glad I asked that question. It's my favorite thing. It's, that's really incredible. And how lovely to give people the idea and the permission to do it.

Right. It's not a selfish thing. I. I'm gonna start doing that number one. Yes. Um, I have done it one time before where I just got away alone. I went to my favorite hotel, which is kind of in the wine country of, uh, right outside of Portland and Umhmm. Uh, everything that I do today, like my core offer, the work that I do, I only have one offer [00:26:00] was born from that 24 hour period.

Wow. I just realized it. I just realized it right now. But yeah, it's the key

Shira: to everything. Leave your house. Treat

Kris: yourself. Yeah. Instagram leave every quarter. That's right. And get rid of

Shira: imposter ro. Yes.

Kris: Okay. One more. What is a recent Less is more decision that made your life instantly better?

Shira: Hmm. I mean, probably my quiet quitting of Instagram.

Um, if I'm honest, like that was something that really was. Creating a lot of digital and mental clutter for me and was, took me years to feel like I could, um, let go of. Um, but it really has created so much more spaciousness. Um, so I highly recommend it. Yeah.

Kris: Yeah. It's kind, it's a lot like that feeling of like.

In college or in school when there's always like a term paper, there's always homework, right? The minute you finish one term paper, [00:27:00] there's another one do or a final coming up. And I feel like Instagram gave me that feeling as well. Like it was a perpetual homework that never, that I never finished with.

And um, and yeah, what a gift to just not have to do it. Unless you're inspired. Right. Exactly. On your own terms. On your own terms. Alright, Shera, thank you so much for being here today. Tell us where we can find you.

Shira: Okay. Yeah. Thank you. This was so fun. Um, people can find me. My website is shera gill.com. Um, I have a free substack called the Life Edit, um, which has a really fun global community, people from 150 countries around the world, um, that are interested in doing more with less.

Um, so that's where I spend most of my time online. And then I have, um, three books out, minimalist Organized Living and Lifestyle.

Kris: Oh my gosh. You got a lot going on. It's so inspiring. Well, thank you again for being here. It's been such a joy. Thank you so much.

Is your website turning away Potential clients? [00:28:00] I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next.