How to Use Storytelling in Your Business

The Chaos to Conversations Podcast, with Kris Jones, Melanie Battistelli and Branda Villacob

You've been told you need a brand story or that you should use storytelling in your copy, but it's easier said than done, especially if you don't have a crazy wild story to tell. Today, we're chatting with Kris Jones, a story brand guide, who's sharing what storytelling actually means and how you can craft a story that sets you apart.

Kris Jones is a story brand guide and founder of Red Door Designs. Mentored by the author of building a story brand, Donald Miller himself with over 20 years of experience and clients like Nike and Adidas under her belt. She's extremely passionate about helping coaches and service providers replace all of their marketing with a single story so they can multiply their revenue and focus on what they do best.

Kris has been able to achieve incredible transformations for her clients, including increased revenue by 300%, record breaking lead calls and clients booked, scaling from 30k months to 300k months, charging six times more for the same service. Kris believes that writing copy for your own business doesn't have to feel like torture.

In fact, once you know how to tell a compelling story, it can actually be fast, easy. 

Being an online business owner is full of ups and downs. Some days you can't imagine going back to your nine to five and other days you want to burn your whole business to the ground. We get it. Welcome to Chaos to Conversions, a podcast of practical, no BS strategies to grow your online business. Each week we're chatting about launching, copywriting, mindset, and more so you can make sense of the chaos and do more of what works.

Join the conversation and let's grow together. 

Hi everybody. Welcome back to Chaos to Conversions. Today we have Kris Jones with us and we are so beyond excited to Talk with her as some of you know, probably Branda is a copywriter, but me, Melanie, I am not one. So any  advice that I can get about storytelling or how to make your messaging or marketing better.

I am all for, and that is exactly what Kris specializes in. So welcome to the show, Kris. Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. We're super excited too. So. Let's just dive right in. I just am wondering how you would go ahead and actually define storytelling. If somebody said, Hey, Kris, like I know that I need storytelling in my marketing.

How would you define that for somebody? I'm so glad you're asking this question because  as much as We have stories in our lives. There's a lot of confusion around what it really means to tell a story, especially in your business and telling a story in your business is.  I mean, the fundamentals are the same, the flow and the formula is the same as any movie you've ever been to, any book you've ever read, any story anyone's ever told you.

But when we're in a business situation, well, let me tell you the formula first.  Every story you've ever heard begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve. They meet a guide who has a solution to their problem that can help guide them to success and avoid failure. And when we follow that story formula in our business, We are, as the business owner, we are the guide in that story.

We are not the hero of that story. And I think a lot of what a lot of business owners get wrong is they unintentionally make themselves the hero of their own story. And I get why this happens. You know, you're required to have a website. So you're like, okay, this is my website. I guess I need to talk about myself.

And then you talk, you know, you talk about yourself and there's nothing wrong with talking about yourself, but what's more effective as far as When you're, if you're wanting to get clients and you're wanting a website, that's actually going to make you money. You really want the hero to be the central figure in your story.

And that hero is always your client. So you want to  start your story out with the problem that they don't know how to solve, really showing them that you get the nuances of their struggle.  where they feel stuck when you can really articulate that they feel seen, they feel heard. They feel like you understand them.

They feel like you're the right guide to help them find the solution to where they're struggling.  I feel like that helps so much. And I don't know how I've made it like, four plus years in business without anyone explaining it to me that way. Something we didn't talk about before we went live is, Branda's actually a former English teacher and I used to teach English in history as well.

So I feel like the story formula, like, I don't know why I never thought of it that way. That's, that's makes so much sense.  Yeah. And, you know, when you really think of it that way, it, you kind of, I watch movies differently than I ever have before because of that. I'm always like, Oh, there's the hero.

There's the guide. Here's the plan that the guide's going to give the hero to inspire that hero to take action and  all the, the different core components of the story. They're everywhere.  Yeah. And I feel like it's also very empowering too, which I think we're putting our like  our potential customer at the center of that.

We're saying like, here is why I'm the right person for you. And like, they feel that connection with us. It like empowers them to make a really good decision, which is ultimately what we want them to do is feel comfortable investing in us or working with us. But I think sometimes I have a lot of clients who, when I talk to them about storytelling and bring in their story, they're like, well, I don't have a big, crazy, life changing story.

Like nothing. It's going to really empower them to work with me. So what do you do when you don't have that big story or you feel like your story is boring? Well, you mentioned that this is an empowering process and it is, but it's also a big giant relief for most business owners because that your story is not really even about you.

It's about your clients. So it's a huge load off. You're like, Oh, it's not even about me. Like I'm, I'm. I'm inviting them into a narrative where they play the hero and I play the guide, but it's not like I, as the business owner have to have this big profound founder story that like, you know, about how you move mountains and achieved Nirvana somehow.

It's, it's really a load off. And the thing that you mentioned that I think was, Spot on is that  storytelling really creates a connection and the kind of cool thing about business and marketing when you do it right is that people don't actually hire the best person. So you don't actually have to be extraordinary at what you do.

They hire the one they feel the most connected with. And when people come to your website and you're writing in a way that really resonates with them, they feel a connection with you and you're just going off. On a walk or having dinner with your friends, but your website's doing all that work of  telling a story, crafting a narrative, making your, your lead or your potential customers or clients, the central figure and presenting you as the strongest character in the story, which is the guide.

When you show up as the guide with empathy and authority, and  mostly just true empathy, These people that come to your website, it's a completely different way of experiencing a website, because  again, it comes back to that connection and that trust that's built through that connection. It's almost not that the story doesn't matter.

It's obviously it does, right? And how you craft it, but it's like the connection matters more. And sometimes I think what is the relatable piece is not you saying like, I have, I've created this. Literally, I've climbed Mount Everest and I've done these things or I'm, you know, I've built this multi million dollar business.

Like sure, those are inspiring stories, but sometimes it is like the day to day person that is also really relatable too, and that we can make connections with. So I like that you kind of reframed it of, it really is that Our customer feeling that we hear them and we understand them and we get them.  Yes, 100%.

That is like, you just hit the nail on the head. That is the most important thing we can do. In fact, I think I deleted my about me page or I moved it down to my footer navigation. Like nobody really cares. Nobody, nobody really cared. They just want to know, like, are you, what are you about? Do you understand my struggle?

Do you understand where I, where I am? And can you get me out of this? Can you get me to where I want to go? And those are the things that people that come to your website are curious, most curious about. Yeah, that totally makes sense. And it's funny when we started. This podcast. And we were working with our podcast launch manager at the time. 

She was saying like, you know, sometimes I don't even put the client, like the guest bio, like right in the beginning because people just skip those 30 seconds and skip the about portion. And you know what I mean? And when I get right to the, how can this episode or, you know, whatever helped me. So I think it's interesting that you said you like moved your about me section on your website.

I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Do you,  like when you're working with clients  to get them to have this mindset shift from the hero in the story to more of the guide,  what have you encountered in working with people as like a roadblock that you come up against? Like, is it an easy transition for people to switch from the hero to the guide or do you feel like it, you're met sometimes with resistance?

Transcribed Honestly, I love that question. And it's, it's such a relief to my clients when they realize this, and they have this awareness. It's like this light bulb goes off, and they have an aha moment. And they're like, Oh, of course. Oh, yes. And they're they're relieved, number one, because they've been putting all this pressure on themselves to have What I would call a founder's story, a founder's story is different from a true story that you're going to have on your website, or you're going to tell in your marketing communications.

And not to say that founder stories aren't important, but they're not the type of story that you need to tell. That's going to get you new clients and get your website converting for you. The story I'm talking about is a narrative that you're going to craft. That you're inviting your potential clients into where they're the hero and you're the guide and all the clients that I work with.

And nobody has pushed back on that. Nobody has been resistant to that because when you're a service provider and you're truly you have the heart to help your clients, you know, you'll do whatever you need to do to really help them. And I think it becomes really clear that like, Oh, this is about the people that I'm trying to help.

Of course, like that's really where my heart is anyway. So it's a very easy transition. That makes sense. I was just wondering because sometimes  When I talk with clients about launch mindset, and  it's so easy for people to fall into a scarcity mindset when they're launching a course or a membership specifically, at least like what I've seen with clients is, is people saying things like, Oh, well, so and so has a membership or so and so has a course just like this. 

Why, you know, they're going to buy from them and not me. So I think like shifting the narrative. And mentioning like what you just said is it's all about connection and you're not going to be for everybody and everybody's not for you and your program and like, that's okay. That's okay. Yeah. And I think, you know, that problem is so common that the market is so saturated, right?

With different programs and courses and coaches and services. And what's beautiful about this is that you don't have to drum up. Like all the ways that you're different from everybody else, because inherently you are different from everybody else, but that comes through in the nuances that you understand about your client and their struggle and what their hopes and dreams are and how you help them overcome this, this problem that they're stuck in, like.

All of that, like going through the process and really putting the, the flashlight on them  and what, you know, about them and the things that they share with you about,  you know, what wakes them up in the middle of the night? What, what, what wakes your clients up in the middle of the night? What do, what are they telling you on sales calls that they're the most frustrated about or scared about?

Are there. They're longing for the most. And when you write your copy in a way that gets into those nuances, it inherently shows how different you are, because even if someone's doing a similar program, they're going to tap into different nuances about their clientele.  Yeah, I actually love your mentioning all this because I feel like we talk about this a lot with market research.

So it really feels like, in a lot of ways, these things go hand in hand. Crafting a really good story also is about having a deep knowledge of your customer, of your clients, paying attention to what they're telling you and making note of those things, which I think we really forget to do that sometimes.

So let's say someone's listening to this episode and they're like, you have sold me, Kris. I am going to be the guide now in a story. I want to create this. Great story to tell my clients or my customers, what should be the first thing that they do in starting to hone this story? The, the best thing they can do, and I have a freebie that, that does break this down for people in a worksheet, but the fundamentals are that you want to brain dump all the things that they've shared with you, that they're struggling with in their words.

So we really want to meet them where they are. A lot of My clients are like, yeah, they,  they are struggling with this, but I know the real problem is their time management, but I'm like, okay, well, did they mention time management is like something they're struggling with? No, they're not aware that it's a time management issue or.

A self esteem issue or whatever people pleasing all kinds of things, right? Like our clients come to us with problems and we know often that there's a deeper issue or, or we know the source of where that's coming from, but they don't know it yet. And so, um, I would encourage your listeners just to literally use the words that your clients use when you're on the phone with them and they're sharing with you and they're in their heart.

What are they really struggling with in their words? So meet them right where they are. And that's what I would start with. I would start with that. And then after you get really clear on the problem,  The rest of the story kind of falls down like dominoes and in many, many ways, because the next part of the story is really painting a brighter future for them.

So what is their life look like after working with you? What are they longing for and hoping for? What would delight them? And we want to kind of think like. What's the peak of the mountain for them? What's possible for them. And as the guide, one of our most important jobs is just to show them and remind them of a brighter future that's possible.

And so often you can  go back to phone calls that you've had with them, things that they've shared with you, or you can look at the problems that you brain dumped on a Google doc and what's the opposite. What are the opposite of those? struggles and those problems. And usually that will lead you to like,  really clearly painting a vision of success for them.

When you're working with people and maybe they don't have a super great understanding of their audience yet, like maybe they're struggling at even that initial part, like kind of how you mentioned, maybe they're not, um, They're clients telling them one thing, but they're kind of hearing something else, or they're trying to fix the issue.

I know in the past I've recommended to clients to do like go through old testimonials, right? And you can kind of look at the language there, or maybe you have clients you've worked with or even in a membership, have them submit feedback on your membership. You can use that. Do you have other ways that you recommend people go and hear from their audience, especially if maybe they're new to business, maybe they haven't gotten a lot of interaction yet.

Yeah. If you're new to business, one little trick that is. It's really pretty fruitful is going to Amazon, finding a book that solves the problem that you solve.  And then looking at the reviews of that book and people will be talking about, you know, what they were struggling with and how that book helped them resolve it.

You get, you can get a lot of good language that way. Yeah. I've never thought about that. I like that. Yeah. That's an amazing, that's an amazing little hack you got there. So can you give us an example, Kris, using like your own business about how you would use this sort of process and this story process, this metaphor that you've basically constructed, which I think is an amazing metaphor, by the way, being the guide, like how, how do you use that in your, in like your own business? 

Well, okay, so every story begins with a hero that has a problem they don't know how to solve so we always want to Begin our communications with that. They meet a guide and this is true for movies too. About a third of the way through the movie, they meet a guide or a guide comes into the,  to the story.

And that guide gives them a plan. The plan that the guide provides them is very simple. It's a three step plan. And the reason why it's so simple is because. Your potential client is stuck in their problem and they feel very overwhelmed. If they could solve this problem on their own, they would have, they can't.

And so for them, getting out of their problem and getting to a point of success feels very, very overwhelming. Feels like running a marathon without training for a marathon. It's really impossible. And so as the guide, the first thing you want to do is really Give them a plan and give them a very clear and simple plan.

Here's how it works. Here's how I solved this problem. Many times before step one, schedule a call with me, step two, join my membership or work with me one on one and we'll get into the nitty gritty and yada, yada, like solve your problem. And then step three is always the happy end result. So they, so then they look at this plan and they go, Oh my gosh.

And three simple steps I can get to where I want to go. And it's. It reminds them that it's not going to be so hard and the plan, the simpler, the plan, the better, because the plan is really the tool that calls them to action. The action is really  the whole point of everything. Like we're just trying to get our potential clients to.

Have enough courage and have enough trust and have enough connection with us to take that action. That's how we know our marketing's working. Our people are clicking and booking calls with us, or they're buying our course or program. They're taking action. And the reason they're taking action is because we've broken it down into a very clear and simple plan that they that's reminded them, okay, I can do this.

I can totally do this. I'm going to, I'm, I'm not jumping off a cliff. I'm, I'm jumping into a soft pillow. I'm going to click on this call to action and solve my problem. And our clients are really likely to click on our call to action if they know it's going to bring them to success. But it's an interesting thing.

The way the brain works, they're even more likely to click on that call to action if they know it's going to help them avoid failure. And so we really want to remind them that we're going to help them avoid failure. Failure is possible. This is what I call stakes. What are the stakes? And stakes in a movie are just the tension between the possibility of success and the possibility of, of failure.

And Stakes are really the thing that pull us through the movie or through the book or through the website without disengaging. If we went to a movie and eight minutes into the, to the movie, the bomb got disarmed,  we would probably get up and leave the movie in about 10 minutes because there's no stakes.

And so we want to use that same really important part of  Of  storytelling to really make your story compelling and keep them engaged. I mean, what has the power to capture our attention in this day and age, right? Where we don't look at our phone for 90 minutes or two hours. Like it's nothing has the power to do that, but if you go to a movie.

That's what happens. Like that's the power of a story. And so when we, when we have all of these different components of story in our business, then we pull people through the story and we get to kind of educate them and build trust and nurture a relationship, just even, even scrolling through the homepage. 

Yeah, I also love this, you know, the movie analogy and you're talking about the stakes and it made me think how I sometimes see on social media, people might focus on like one element of a story or one element of their customer. Like they might only touch on the stakes. So then things always feel really stressful.

Like when watching their stuff, right? It's always like how things could go wrong, but I never see the transformation or the end result. I never feel like they hear me. Or maybe there are some people who only focus on the end result, but I don't know their process. I don't know how they get there. And I think that's also really important about why the whole story comes together.

And there's all of those elements because you have to move. People along with you have to take them along the whole journey because if you're just stuck at one point, like you said, if the bomb was diffused right in the beginning or if there wasn't ever a stake and it was just like this happy go lucky thing, you're like, well, this is kind of boring.

Where are we going with this? Completely, completely. And I think of, uh, there, there are really seven parts to any story. To all stories. And that's what I do for my clients on my initial call is I kind of diagnose where is there's where the holes in their boat. I think of every component of story as a potential hole in your boat.

And if you, if you don't have the stakes, or if you don't have the plan, or if you don't have, you know, the painting a picture of success, or you don't have a clear call to action, these are holes. In the boat. And if you're, if you've got three, four or five holes in your boat, you're not going anywhere. Like it's you're, you're bailing water the whole, the whole day.

And so my goal is to really help people kind of shore up those holes and  it really tell a full and complete story in all their marketing, right? Their website, the, the website tells the same story as. Everywhere else that you do the market, your marketing and your story can really vary in length too. I like to say it, it works a lot like an accordion.

You've got a very short version of your story. When someone says, Hey, what do you do? You've got like a sh and shorter answer to that. If you're in a podcast, it might be longer on a website, longer and webinar might be even longer, but really the key is that you. Buy, you know, you, you create, you craft your story and then you don't have to reinvent the wheel over and over and over again, you use that same story.

And the more you use it, the more you repeat it, the more people remember it, the more trust you build. And people think  that somehow they have to come up with fresh and new content all the time. But really, like, this is kind of the lazy man's way of or a woman's way of doing things, but not in a bad way.

It actually like it feels like you're being lazy, but you're actually being very professional because you're being cohesive, you're being consistent, and people need to hear things about eight times. before they can commit it to memory anyway. So you might think you're, you know, beating a dead horse, but you're not.

Just keep telling your same story over and over again. Yeah. It's kind of like a messaging cheat sheet. You just keep coming back to the story. Completely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've given us so much amazing  Even as someone who writes copy all the time and I talk about these things, I think hearing it from you has helped me put it in new words for my clients who maybe are struggling with what I mean when I say messaging and when we talk about market research.

So, yeah, as we kind of close up this episode, you mentioned briefly that you had a free resource for helping people kind of craft the story and writing compelling copy. Can you tell us a little bit about that? More about yes. Yeah. Everything about me can be found at my website, red door designs. com.

That's R E D D O O R D E S I G N S. com. And my freebie is there. It's how it's called how to write compelling copy in five minutes flat. And it's a worksheet. A Google doc, it's a five minute video with a Google doc that really breaks down these components of stories. So you can kind of brain dump them, get them out of your head and onto the document.

And then that does become your cheat sheet for all your messaging moving forward. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing all this wonderful info with us.  Thanks so much for joining our conversation today. If you enjoyed this episode, please hit your listing app and leave a quick rating review. If you're on Instagram, share this episode and tag us at Duxbury Digital and at the relevant collective.

We'd love to hear from you. We'll meet you back here next Tuesday for more practical strategies to take your business from chaos to conversions.