Kris: Welcome to from Click to Client, where we transform a confusing message into a clear, compelling story that sells. I'm your host, Chris Jones, StoryBrand marketing expert. I'm here to help you attract more dream clients with the power of story.

Welcome to the podcast. I am beyond delighted today to have my dear friend, my mentor, my coach, the brilliant Neil Williams. She has been instrumental in my entrepreneurial journey in helping me simplify my business and really, uh, target my focus.

So I'm really doing the work that I'm put on the planet to do, that I am, um, Using my greatest gifts with every one of my clients. And before we hopped on the call, um, Neil and I were talking about how [00:01:00] she has helped me in so many ways. So I'm going to fill you in on that, uh, today. And really, we're going to talk about how to simplify our lives as business owners, how to do, how to set ourself up with tools and strategies and mindsets that really

allow us to do more of the work that we love and less of the marketing and the minutiae and the to do's that come with being a business owner. So um, Neil, welcome.

Neill: Thank you, Kris. It's so wonderful to be here. I love chatting with you and that was quite the introduction. Hopefully the show lives up to that.

Kris: I know it will. I know it will. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do.

Neill: So I'm a productivity coach, mindset coach. So I help, um, high achieving people in corporate or our high achieving entrepreneurs, who I'm sure there are many listening to the show really simplify work less.

But achieve [00:02:00] their goals, what they want. I really don't, I, this is kind of like the thing that I did in the corporate world that I took into starting my business was proving to myself that the amount of time that I spent doing something did not. It doesn't mean success or failure. It really is, it's a different equation.

Kris: What's what's the situation that comes to mind when you think about that? Like when you had that aha, like, Oh my gosh, I hardly spent any time on this and I'm getting much greater results than when I used to spend a lot more time on it. What? Give me, give me an example.

Neill: Well, it started with when I was in the corporate worlds.

Um, and this has been 15 years ago. Yeah, my son is 15. So about 15 years ago, had a baby. I was, um, partner track in a firm. I was an actuary. If you don't know what that is, you can Google it. It's a numbers job. Nobody knows what it is, but in any case, I was working 60 plus hours per week. That wasn't the way that I wanted to, um, have my life structured in terms of having the time that I wanted to be with my son as a mom.

So I started really diving into this whole [00:03:00] productivity time management thing, and I was like, if I could just work like 30 hours per week, I feel like I'd have like the right balance. And so the way that I approached it wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to work less. It was, I'm going to still produce the same amount, but I'm going to figure out how to do it in less time.

And I slowly over a little bit of time, probably took me a year, maybe two years max, I scaled all the way back to 30 hours. And I was, but I was producing the same amount of, not more as anyone else in the company. And so I was like, wow, this is really powerful. I feel like other people should know this.

Kris: And

Neill: so then I started my own business on the side to help other people do similar things. Yes.

Kris: Got it. Okay. And so did anybody in that you are working with know that you are dramatically like being more efficient and working less? Okay.

Neill: Yeah. It wasn't well respected. Um, I guess well received in the world that I was in because.

Working overtime was like this badge [00:04:00] of honor. It was like, you're at the top of the food chain if you have the highest number of overtime hours. And for a long time, I bought into that. They, at our team meetings, they would put up a chart and it would show everybody's overtime hours for the like year to date.

And I was always like, number one, number two. And I was like, so damn proud of that.

Kris: it's so telling of corporate culture that there's this like a wall of like accolades based on amount of overtime hours and not at all related to productivity, right?

No.

Neill: It was so silly when I, once I like saw it, I was like, this is ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense. It was like, we were actually demotivating any productive efforts because You're, you're gonna, if overtime is the answer is the goal, then you're going to inflate everything that you do and make it take longer, which is the opposite of efficiency.

So it didn't make sense to me. So, but that's the way that culture was. That's it. And it's fine. It can stay that way. I was not willing to stay there [00:05:00] and continue to be involved in that machine.

Kris: Right. Right. It's so amazing that you had that awareness. And I love, I didn't realize that the timing of all this happened around the time that you had your son.

Yeah. Because the way that you helped me is when I had my son and I was feeling that same sense of like overwhelm, um, working more is going to get me more results. And you totally shifted that perspective for me. But the gift of having a child I think is so huge in for women helping us and men too, I'm sure.

But like helping us really. Realize, like, we actually don't have the capacity for operating in this way anymore, and nor do we want to. Right.

Neill: And it's not necessary. That's the thing that I think we think that, um, we have to in order to achieve whatever success metric that we're going for. [00:06:00] And that, that alone changed my life because I realized.

The hard work plus amount of time does not, is not the only formula for success. It might work for some people, but it's not the only one. I don't think it works for most working moms. Most working moms don't want to be on that kind of trajectory.

Kris: It's

Neill: nearly impossible to sustain for long periods of time.

Kris: Truly, truly. So what did you, what were some of the initial things that you, that, that started working for you then that you're still implementing now? Yeah.

Neill: So I worked on my brain. Um, so we can talk about a couple of mindset things, which was the most powerful piece because I didn't know that I can't work on my brain or think differently about things.

That's the reason I got certified as a coach and then certified as a master coach and went down that whole route. But there were also tactical things that I did as well. So, I mean, I started really, my tendency is once I'm interested in something is I just [00:07:00] go research the heck out of it. Like I consume everything I can about it.

I try to educate myself and then I start applying the things that I learned. So there was this one principle that told me that. We as humans have this tendency to expand any activity to fill the amount of time that we give it. And I was like, wait a minute, if that's true, then I can just set the time.

And then I can figure out how to get the thing done in the amount of time that I want to spend on it. That was like such a huge shift. If it felt like. Um, really revelatory, even though it's not a new idea. Um, so I started simply like putting things on my calendar in time blocks and not just like work on client, whatever it was, get X done.

And so that every time block had something where I was accomplishing something.

And

Neill: that felt great because I didn't, I no longer was I leaving my day feeling like. I sat here for 12 hours and I don't even know what I did. It was like, oh, I got this done and this done and this done, this done, this done. I could literally see the work accomplished.

So that was like [00:08:00] the biggest, like probably the most powerful first tactical strategy that I used. Um, and then I would say the other thing that I learned is that. Whatever we decide is true. That's what we're going to build evidence for. We're going to have the experience of that. So in my mind, the thought that ran rampant over and over was, there's not enough time.

I can't get it all done. All those flavors of thoughts. And I was like, okay. So I'm actually creating that experience for myself because I'm believing that to be true. But what if I just tried to believe something else is true? Like

I

Neill: always get everything done. I have plenty of time. So I started just practicing those ideas in my mind.

And that is the experience that I started creating.

Kris: Wow.

Neill: So I would say those two are both very, very powerful and kind of set me on the trajectory towards, you know, shrinking back my work week, um, by 50%.

Kris: Incredible. Incredible. And then at what point, you know, you, you started kind of a side gig with coaching.

At what point did you decide, just decide, [00:09:00] I'm, I'm taking the leap. I'm going to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be fully self employed.

Neill: Well, I'm pretty, um, I'm not really great at taking risks. So I had my side gig for quite some time. I was doing both, but the way that I did my side gig was I had scaled my work week back to 30 hours.

And I was like, okay, I'm going to take 10 hours for my business. I'm going to build my business in 10 hours a week. So that's what I did for probably three years. And then it was to the point where. There was enough, um, kind of disagreement between myself and the partners, um, in this firm that I gave my partnership and we decided to part ways.

The biggest of those was they decided that I couldn't do both, that I, it was a conflict of interest for me to do both. And so I was like, Hey, Neil, this is a. This is a turning point. Are you going to vote for yourself or do the thing that feels safe? And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna try doing my own thing and just see if I can make it work.

And so that was, like I said, about three years in.

Kris: And you are, you are working kind of for, for your coaching business, you are working. [00:10:00] 10 hours a week. And that reminds me of kind of the theme of the way you approach. Yeah, entrepreneurship, right? And that I'm sure that that has, um, gone up and down over the years.

But what's been your journey? Because I think you're back to 10 hours per week.

Neill: Yeah.

Kris: Okay. If

Neill: that that's like my maximum workweek at this point. Perfect. Yeah, so I left the corporate world and then I scaled up my work week to about 20, maybe sometimes 25 hours per week, just as a solopreneur,

um,

Neill: and I did that for years.

Um, this last year over a couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with a couple of autoimmune diseases. I had a lot of health stuff going on. And so I started ratcheting that back last year. I was maybe about 15 hours per week this year. I'm somewhere between seven and 10 hours per week. And it's done very strategically.

Um, and with intention behind it, because this is a year that I want to just like take care of. All the rest of my health things, and I have a lot of other things going on. I'm, I'm [00:11:00] partially homeschooling my son and you know, there's just other things that I want to do in my life, so it feels like the right fit for right now.

Kris: Do you ever find yourself kind of dipping your toe into wanting to do a little bit more, or are you just so skilled at this point that you don't have that urge?

Neill: I really don't have that urge anymore. In fact, the thought that goes through my brain is like, I wonder how I could do this in five hours or I wonder how I like it's just like it's a game that I've played with my brain for so many years like literally almost 15 years at this point

that it's

Neill: just like it's like a little challenge that I give to myself so yeah I don't really maybe there will be a point where I want to scale it up.

And for me, that would just mean taking on more clients, but I feel really content where I'm at right now.

Kris: That's so lovely. So tell me, um, share with me how you work with your clients. Like somebody will come to you. What are they struggling with? And then how do you actually work with them over time?

Neill: Yeah.

So right now I am only working with folks one on one, um, because that's what feels [00:12:00] really good to me. And we work together for a minimum of six months. Better a year. Um, typically someone will come to me like I onboarded a client just a few weeks ago, and this person has an online business. And wants to scale back his work week from like 40 plus hours down to 20.

I'm like, cool, let's do that. So that will like, and just set an initial goal. And then we work together every week for that period of time. And it's partially mindset coaching. It's partially tools and tactics and strategies for how to shrink things back.

But

Neill: the idea is at the end of the six months.

He'll be at that 20 to 25 hours. And in fact, he's, he's at least 50 percent of the way now he's one of those, like you, you tell me what to do. I'm, I'm a really good implementer. I'll just do it. And so that's amazing. Those are the best. I know. That's super fun for a coach because you're like, Oh my gosh, there's like this instant gratification of so many like little wins that they're getting so quickly.

Um, so yeah, so that's what it looks like. I, [00:13:00] I coach on everything. It's not just time. It's interesting because people think it's time management and productivity, but it's a whole host of other things. There's so many psychological factors that go into it. A lot of, um, nervous system work, mindset work, cognitive behavior therapy, all kinds of disciplines I bring into the fold.

Kris: There's so many layers there, right? Like there's, there's so much, um, underneath the busyness, right? That, that's like, it could be trauma related or could be just sitting with difficult pain that you don't want to feel. Um, and so you kind of have to, Be kind of a partially, uh, like a healer. Like you're not doing the healing for them, but you're like really facilitating them to go underneath why they're creating such busyness in their life.

And that's deep work.

Neill: It really is deeper. I think people mistakenly think that productivity and time management is kind of [00:14:00] like a surface level thing, but if you really want to have a beautiful relationship with time, it requires that deeper work. And as a coach, I really. feel like I, I am in some sense of healer, but more so in the sense of, I facilitate my clients coming to understand themselves better.

And what that means is understanding why they do what they do, because it always makes sense. Once we figure out the why behind it. And once you have that, it just releases all kinds of shame and judgment and there's so much clarity and calm that comes through that process.

Kris: What do you find this guy was a model client, but what do you find when clients have resistance or they're having difficulty implementing or getting over those hurdles?

What are they? What are they struggling with the most and how do you hold their hand through? the difficulty?

Neill: Well, when, when that happens, which is more often the case, there is deeper work that has to be done. So it's some sort of low lying belief system that they picked up. A lot of the stuff [00:15:00] that we discover in coaching, it has happened during childhood or some really pivotal experiences.

And part of my job is to help my clients connect the dots to how that. It's creating this pattern of behavior or this level of resistance or what's going on. So that has to do with like nervous system work. It has to do with understanding, you know, I brought in, um, some of my background in economics, um, because that's a lot of what describes and explains our subconscious thinking, which is what drives like 95 percent of what we do.

And so it's a matter of. Kind of peeling back those layers and figuring out why you're resisting or why you're struggling with making this new habit. There's always a reason. You always make

Kris: sense. Always. Yep, completely. Oh, that's such incredible work. And you've, you've recently written a book. Is that right?

I did.

Neill: Yes. Tell us about it. Yeah, so it's called How to Thrive on a 10 Hour Workweek. [00:16:00] And it really, even though it has, you know, like it has the nice little markety title. It really is about examining our relationship with time. That's really what I hope people are taking away from it is a way to approach and, um, really create a beautiful relationship with time because there's so much stress and anxiety and worry about this thing we have made up called time.

And I don't think it needs to be that way. I think we can feel really balanced and at ease. Um, and feel like we're accomplishing what we want, especially the working moms. I really wrote it for them because they have so many things on their plate and there's so much societal pressure for what they accomplish.

Kris: That's beautiful. Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience about? Something that you want them, like a takeaway that you want them to have, whether it be about time or entrepreneurship, what would you like to share?

Neill: Yeah, I think, um, the biggest [00:17:00] thing that I would say is really examine your belief systems around time.

If, if time is something you want to work with, which I am biased, of course, but I think it's a worthwhile endeavor that literally can change your life. And if that's something that you want to tackle and you want to do it on your own, the best place to start is to really find what you believe about time.

And our belief systems come from four different places. They come from what happened in our childhood, what our teachers, our parents, those influential adults taught us about time, what we took away from their models. Um, it comes from our peers. Um, colleagues, um, coaches, therapists, doctors, those influential things.

And in this day and age for you and I, Kris, our children, especially social media influence. I mean, what you see on Instagram or Tik TOK or YouTube, YouTube's my son's thing. Um, it literally is shaping the belief systems of the people who are consuming it. So not to, I'm not like fear mongering. I'm just [00:18:00] saying that is the way that our nervous system, um, creates belief systems is the inputs that we receive.

So that's the

Neill: third thing. And then the fourth one is something that is only available to humans, which is our choice. What we decide to be true. You decide that you don't have enough time. That's what you will experience. If you decide that, of course you have enough time. That's what you will experience.

And my favorite belief, this is something that, um, my assistant Kelly and I both geek out on, but. I mean, we message each other with ways that this has actually happened in our lives. We both believe that we create time and that's a really empowering way to think about it versus being at, um, you know, being an antagonist with time.

You're actually co creating.

Kris: Right. You're not a victim to time going by too quickly or not having enough. You're really, you're really the guide and time. Time is the hero and you are the guide. That's right. I

Neill: love how [00:19:00] you just took it back to StoryBrand. That was brilliant.

Kris: So before we wrap up, I do want to share just my personal experience of getting to work with you because you have been such an instrumental guide in my journey as an entrepreneur.

And, um, for my audience, I just want to share Neil really helped me shape the offer that the way that I work with my clients. And she encouraged me and gave me clarity and The reality is this idea that as entrepreneurs were stuck inside of a bottle trying to read the label that can only be read from outside of the, of the bottle, no one's immune to that.

Even me, I, I provide such clarity for my clients, but I run my own business and I'm very close to it. And sometimes I need a brilliant coach and outside perspective to read the label of my bottle. And Neil has been that person for me. Many times now and in such profound ways [00:20:00] and she helped me and encouraged me to kick off my current offer, um, which was originally called copy that sells and it's evolved over time into the signature story selling system and it's, it's been such a gift to simplify the way I help my clients in one deep, profound way.

I don't. I don't work with my clients in, in any other way and narrowing my offerings to one offering was the biggest way that I was able to kind of take the reins of my business and really have boundaries around my client work, my time involved. And it was like, the words don't really capture the, uh, the, way that it helped me and the way that it changed my life.

And then a couple of years later, I, I've been working one on one with clients and I was loving it. And I was getting a lot of advice [00:21:00] from coaches and other. Other leaders, uh, other entrepreneur leaders and everyone was like, scale, scale, scale, group program, group program. You've got to do this. Like you've proof of concept one, one on one.

Now let's expand it and grow it and multiply your impact and multiply your revenue. Honestly, I love working one on one with my clients, and that's what energizes me, but I thought, okay, the way to reach more people is to I created a group program and so of course I reached out to Neal and of course she was willing to have a power call with me and I ran it by her, okay, this is what I'm going to do.

I'm going to scale. I'm going to do this group program. And I said, but here's the deal. I, I'm really resistant to this idea. Like I love my one on one work and I, I don't know if doing this work in a group format is going to be as effective. I, I don't know if this is like a [00:22:00] mindset thing that I need to overcome or, or what it is.

And, but I need you to help me overcome that barrier and move forward with this group program. And she said these words, which we'll always remember. She said. Be careful what you build because you don't want to build it and then look back and wish you hadn't and And I realized in that moment that she was gently guiding me to listen to my own heart and listen to my own knowing and my own guidance and she just Brought me back to that and validated what was really true and right for me, and I have never looked back I was like, oh, I'm back on my path.

I'm I know what I'm doing. I mean, I'm I I'm doubling down on one on one work it's the most fulfilling and it's it gets the greatest results for my clients and And here I am still loving my work still feeling super aligned with my purpose and [00:23:00] And being abundantly a compensated for the work as well, which is such a gift as well.

So I just want to say thank you for the ways that you personally helped me. And it is such an honor to get to have you here today to bring your brilliance.

Neill: Thank you, Kris. I also hope everyone who heard what Kris just said realized that the reason that that worked is that Kris just went back and listened to herself, which is what a lot of coaching is, is bringing you back to yourself and listening to yourself and letting all of what everyone else is saying, even though it's so well meaning and well intended, We have to listen to what's true to us, and I really believe that's why you're so successful and why you're helping so many people is because you are staying true to you.

Kris: Yeah, and so are you. Thank you. All right, well, Nia, where can my audience find you?

Neill: So they could visit my website at, uh, www. neilwilliams. com. They [00:24:00] could go listen to a podcast if they're interested in doing some time management, productivity kind of mindset work. We have, I think we're at almost 300 episodes.

So lots of things to choose from it's called success genius. Or if you just want to reach out with a question, you can email me at neil at neilwilliams. com.

Kris: Amazing. Thank you so much.

Neill: Thank you for having me here, Kris.

Is your website turning away Potential clients? I can help you turn that around. Book a moneymaking messaging call with me today and we'll transform your story into your most powerful sales tool. That's all for this episode of From Click to Client. Don't forget to subscribe and follow. I'm Chris Jones and I'll see you next time.